MCA response to charging for berths on the ARC

Neil_Y

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Following a thread on the ARC where the charging for berths question came up here is the MCA's confirmation of the position.

Essentially you can't charge and shouldn't pay more than shared costs incurred (fuel, food) unless the vessel is coded. The benefit of sailing on a coded yacht is that it will have safety equipment to a commercial standard and it will be manned by qualified skippers. I'm not against hitching on private yachts but they shouldn't be trying to make a profit from it. It's like running your private car as a taxi.
The interesting part is that you can't include mooring, insurance and maintenance costs.

MCA quote
"The Maritime & Coastguard Agency, on behalf of the UK government, has jurisdiction on all UK ships wherever they may be in the world. We call them ships as that is what a boat/yacht is legally known as.

Vessels taking part in the ARC, that are UK ships (defined in Section 85(2) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995) will fall under UK Merchant Shipping legislation.

If the vessel is being used as a "pleasure vessel" (defined in regulation 2(1) of SI 1998/2771) then the direct costs associated with the voyage may be shared. Such costs are considered to mean fuel and food costs, but not to include mooring, insurance, maintenance costs as they are not directly incurred as a result of the voyage. If the vessel is not being used as a "pleasure vessel" it is considered to be on a commercial voyage and therefore would be required to comply with the relevant legislation. The easiest means of compliance with some of the legislation for commercial voyages is to be certified under the MCA/UK Small Commercial Vessel Codes of Practice."
 

Pete7

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Clearly the MCA will need to carry out checks on UK flagged boats for next years ARC. As a civil servant I could be available for loan service for a couple of weeks to assist with this.

We would need to charter a large yacht to follow them just in case they picked up anyone along the route (the lack of land along the route is irrelevant). I think Tim Bartlett should be the skipper, he has an excellent understanding of the civil service and it would be an excellent opportunity for team building.

Pete
 
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sailorman

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Following a thread on the ARC where the charging for berths question came up here is the MCA's confirmation of the position.

Essentially you can't charge and shouldn't pay more than shared costs incurred (fuel, food) unless the vessel is coded. The benefit of sailing on a coded yacht is that it will have safety equipment to a commercial standard and it will be manned by qualified skippers. I'm not against hitching on private yachts but they shouldn't be trying to make a profit from it. It's like running your private car as a taxi.
The interesting part is that you can't include mooring, insurance and maintenance costs.

MCA quote
"The Maritime & Coastguard Agency, on behalf of the UK government, has jurisdiction on all UK ships wherever they may be in the world. We call them ships as that is what a boat/yacht is legally known as.

Vessels taking part in the ARC, that are UK ships (defined in Section 85(2) of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995) will fall under UK Merchant Shipping legislation.

If the vessel is being used as a "pleasure vessel" (defined in regulation 2(1) of SI 1998/2771) then the direct costs associated with the voyage may be shared. Such costs are considered to mean fuel and food costs, but not to include mooring, insurance, maintenance costs as they are not directly incurred as a result of the voyage. If the vessel is not being used as a "pleasure vessel" it is considered to be on a commercial voyage and therefore would be required to comply with the relevant legislation. The easiest means of compliance with some of the legislation for commercial voyages is to be certified under the MCA/UK Small Commercial Vessel Codes of Practice."


You have posted the only response the mca could make. just the same as the Belgians & Red diesel fiasco
 

capnsensible

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Told you the boogie man will get you.

Ever tried getting a Cat 0 Stability category? Even on a yacht that is, under the Recreational Craft Directive, certified for Ocean? Very hard without a deep pocket.

Still, you can re flag in say, Greece and do it.

Pete7, you jest but the long arm of the MCA Enforcement Unit has a long, long reach.......
 

little_roundtop

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Insurance?

Would it not be the case that if your non-coded yacht was severely damaged or lost, and your insurance company could prove (somehow?) that you had accepted paying crew, that they would have a valid case for refusing to pay out?

Just thinking out loud......

Tony C.
 

capnsensible

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Bear in mind that offences are prosecuted under the Merchant Shipping Act.

If you fall foul of the post above, the sentencing can be a fine of up to £50,000 or two years in jail.
 

toad_oftoadhall

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You have posted the only response the mca could make. just the same as the Belgians & Red diesel fiasco

There's no harm in knowing the law though, is there?

Many people will wish to obey the law even if the chances of getting caught are low or zero. For those who don't, the rate of convictions will be useful. (In fact I'm in the former group and I'd still be interested to know as well).

According to the MCA Earthrace could have been convicted for accepting sandwiches:

http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/405857/earthrace-crew-in-the-dock-for-chartering
 

westernman

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MCA Cat 0 is out of reach for an AWB?

The MCA Cat 0 is very tough to do for an average AWB. You need water tight compartments. The medical kit required will also take up an enormous amount of space. You will need a medical qualification to be able to get it and to keep you out of jail (includes morphine etc).

The requirements for chartering across oceans are much much simpler in most other flag states and are about the same as the MCA Cat 2 coding plus EPIRB. I met a guy with a few standard Bavarias who charters them for the ARC and things like that. He charters the summer in the Balearics and in Winter in the carribean. He gets charterers to pay him to deliver his yachts to/from the carribean! Of course his boats were Spanish flagged.
 

Poignard

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"We call them ships as that is what a boat/yacht is legally known as."

In that case it's time I got a few promotions:

Skipper to Master
Tea maker to Chief Cook
Washer-up to Chief Steward
Mr Fixit to Chief Engineer
WTFAW? to Navigator
 

mjcoon

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Surely, mooring costs during a trip are part of the costs of a voyage?

I thought that too. Maybe what they have in mind is mooring costs at base before the voyage starts. That would be the opposite of being incurred as part of the voyage.

The mooring cost could even be because the visitor wished to visit a location that was not originally in the itinerary, rather than being "part of the operation of the vessel"...

Mike.
 

toad_oftoadhall

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I thought that too. Maybe what they have in mind is mooring costs at base before the voyage starts. That would be the opposite of being incurred as part of the voyage.

The mooring cost could even be because the visitor wished to visit a location that was not originally in the itinerary, rather than being "part of the operation of the vessel"...

Mike.

I presumed they meant annual mooring costs of the "home" berth, if there was one.

As I see it, berths during the trip are clearly part of the trip expenses.
 

capnsensible

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The MCA Enforcement Unit investigate a case.

They will consult MCA lawyers and make a case that is bought before a Magistrates' Court.

The Defendants lawyer and the MCA lawyer will argue their cases before the Judge on precisely those details.

It is entirely up to the judge and no one else as to what is allowed.

Sad but tue!!
 

savageseadog

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The MCA Enforcement Unit investigate a case.

They will consult MCA lawyers and make a case that is bought before a Magistrates' Court.

The Defendants lawyer and the MCA lawyer will argue their cases before the Judge on precisely those details.

It is entirely up to the judge and no one else as to what is allowed.

Sad but tue!!

Magistrates Courts don't normally have judges, they have magistrates
 
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