MCA Coding Question

[npf1]

Can anyone help with the following? If a boat is coded (e.g. MCA Cat 0), does it need to comply with the MCA requirements at all times or just when it is on charter?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[TigaWave]

Pretty sure after coding my boat, that it is only a requirement when there are fare paying guests passengers on board.
The exact description is "code of practice for the operation of sailing vessels in commercial use"
Or Para 1.2 "the code has been developed for application to UK vessels which are engaged at sea in activities on a commercial basis"
When not in commercial use you would not have to comform to any code of practice. There is an annex in the code which goes in to detail as to what constitutes a passenger, and hence a commercal operation.
Your insurance company would be the best people to ask, but I know ours were happy with the times we were not operating with guests that the distance from safe haven did not apply.

 

[Talulah]

IMHO It must comply at all times. A commercial vessel does not cease to be a commercial vessel just because it hasn't got any passengers. In addition you are subject to spot checks at any time.

 

[npf1]

mmm...two replies and two opposing but plausable opinions. Anyone know for sure?

 

[bob_tyler]

Have you thought of asking the MCA?

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
(4) Where a vessel has been so examined and a small commercial vessel certificate issued, the vessel shall not proceed, or attempt to proceed, to sea unless:
(a) the certificate is currently in force;

(b) the vessel complies with the requirements of the relevant Code of Practice (including any requirements as to operation, manning and maintenance); and for this purpose any provision of the Code expressed in the conditional (i.e. "should") shall be a requirement; and

(c) the certificate is displayed in some conspicuous place on board; or, if this is not reasonably practicable, is available for inspection on board.


[/ QUOTE ]

So, from reading this, it would appear that a boat that is currently certificated must comply before setting out to sea... Not sure how that affects the requirement to be within a certain distance from a safe haven.... it would seem a little stringent to expect the owners (with no fee paying crew) to keep within that requirement ...

 

[npf1]

Thanks for the replies. Yes, though of asking the MCA but also thought I'd get a faster response from the learned folks on the forum. It's looking like getting the boat coded for six persons is feasable but I don't want it to proclude me from carrying eight when not on charter. Food for thought.

 

[TigaWave]

Come on! MCA codeing is for commercial operation, if you're just cruising without "passengers" as defined in the code which you have a copy of. Then the code is not releveant for that operation.
What particular part of your boat wont comply? has the cooker broken?

 

[npf1]

Sorry, let me explain the background a little. I'm thinking of offering the boat for charter for a few months. Before and after then, I won't be chartering. I think I can only get the coding for six persons but I will have more than six on board sometimes when it's not on charter (53ft boat with 8 person raft). I don't want to get in the situation where I get an MCA inspection when it's not on charter and find that I have a problem. In fact, rather than go down this route, I'll forget about chartering. Hence, this is an imprtant question to get right!!!

 

[sonic]

The best person to speak to is your local MCA inspection officer.
He will keep you on the right side of the law and will help with any questions you might have.
The time it has taken you to get the replies on this forum you could have called them and had the correct answer.

 

[andy_wilson]

I agree with this answer.

 

[Bergman]

Is there a significant difference in being coded for 8 rather than six?

You will need extra liferaft places but you appear to have this covered. Similarly lifejackets and harnesses.

I can't think there would be much else - perhaps easiest way to be certain would be to go for 8 places.

BTW do you need second life raft for cat 0. I seem to recall something about enough places for all crew even if one raft is lost -or have I got it wrong?

 

[tcm]

Re: MCA Coding Question - calling Hambleduncan

the liferaft thingy that can't be a rigid rule. Poster named above (or similar, see the list of names) is an inspector and passed us for 12 with 2 x 8 person liferafts. Or was it 2x 6 person? Anyway, definitely not 12's

I can't see this as a massive issue. The MCA aren't daft and the questin itself seems to explain the "gold plating" of EU directives in the uk. My boat's ashore, no gear, hence violating the rules.

Best is to say that you are on Sea Trials? Note that you can't do Sea Trials with fare paying passengers but doing them prior to taking far paying passengers would be very boaty. This isn't a definitive answer, but i think we are getting into the realms of case law.

 

[VicMallows]

I agree with TigerWaves view. I cannot see any way in which a law which would not otherwise apply could apply simply because the boat was coded but was being used in a way which did not require it to be coded.

Unfortunately, I am not a lawyer.

Vic

 

[bob_tyler]

"Unfortunately, I am not a lawyer"

If you were, you would be incapable of uravelling an EU inspired regulation - nobody can!

 

[alant]

Re: MCA Coding Question - calling Hambleduncan

(1) If you have a query for MCA, best to ring them rather than e-mail - they take ages to answer these.
(2) Larger than necessary liferafts can be dangerous, unless filled with the specified number of people. A friend + 1 other had to abandon into an 8-man en-route from Bermuda to Iceland. Because insufficient weight, raft was continuously flipped. Extremely debilitating over the 3 days before rescue.

 

[jfm]

There is incorrect info in various replies on this thread. The UK coding rules only apply (in the case of <24m loadline length vessels) when BOTH the following occur:

1. the vessel is on a voyage or excursion (which in practice means the rules apply if untied from the dock, but not when tied up in port) AND

2. there are charter customers on board - the only way to not be a charter cusotmer is to be "immediate family or friends" of the owner (if the owner is an indivisual) and for there to be no payment in excess of a contribution towards the direct costs of operating the vessel incurred duing the voyage or excursion.

So, a boat (including a coded boat) does not have to follow the coding rules when the owner is using it him/herself, or when it is tied to the dock, or when any friends aboard chip in no more money than a contribution to fuel and mooring. Often the big Med charter boats will allow 30 guests on board for dockside parties, but only 12 when at sea, frexample

If the boat is owned by a company, then read employee/officer instead of owner

This is clear law. Better to read it than ask MCA officials, imho. Here http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si1998/19982771.htm

 

[jfm]

afaik you dont just code for 6. Must deal with crew too. So you will frexample be coded for 6 plus 2 crew. Which will require an 8-person liferaft.

 

[npf1]

jfm - thanks for that. Very clear!!! I'll have a detailed read of the full requirements over the weekend.