MCA coded vessels (under 24m, cat2): can you give me an idea...

[MapisM]

...of what does that imply?
I mean, assuming to start with an already coded boat, which are the necessary equipment to be replaced periodically, the inspections, and last but not least the (ballpark) costs involved?
Thanks in advance! :encouragement:

 

[jfm]

...of what does that imply?
I mean, assuming to start with an already coded boat, which are the necessary equipment to be replaced periodically, the inspections, and last but not least the (ballpark) costs involved?
Thanks in advance! :encouragement:

Slightly different rules in different countries so I'm commenting on uk:
1. If already coded and current with all equipment still present then many costs are avoided. Coding lapses on change of ownership so you would need a fresh survey as a new owner. All out of date gear must be made in date.
2. Then annually you will need a survey by a surveyor if larger (over 20 m, iirc) and a self certification if smaller. All out of date issues must be brought in date e.g. LR servicing
3. Every 5 years needs oow survey
4. One time initial fee maybe gbp1500 then small annual fee, until 5th anniv.
5. Out of date items will potentially be LR service, LJ service if you have inflatables but not if solid, first aid kit gbp70, batteries in lights
That's it.

Be careful about which rule book to apply. In uk the law allows either yellow book or mgn280. Many surveyors tell you mgn280 is necessary, and in some cases their classification society has chosen to work to mgn280. I always work to yellow book - it is easier. The current edition of mby with the article on harry Metcalfe's princess talks of needing porthole blanks, which is an mgn280 rule not yellow book. So Mr Metcalfe was put to that trouble unnecessarily; he should have coded that boat to yellow book not mgn280.

 

[MapisM]

Thanks J, all understood. And yep, I was referring to a red ensign boat.
Can anyone confirm if the annual survey is only above 20m? I suppose that the annual survey cost ain't trivial.
By porthole blanks, do you mean the internal steel cover that can be closed over the glass? I'm asking because I used to call those "storm shutters"...
Anyway, if so, the boat already has them. They were (relatively) popular in IT boats of the 90s - in fact, also BartW has them on BA, IIRC.

PS: btw, is cat2 (i.e. within 60nm from nearest safe haven, as I understand) the most common coding for boats under 24m?

 

[WhiskeyTownRacer]

I have a passing interest in this sort of thing, however, on the basis that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing you may wish to wait for further info. That said, here are some things you may find useful.

Certification:

Quotes

"An out of the water full survey is required initially and is valid for five years. A mid-term examination between the second and third year is also required and occasionally annually"

Source links

http://solentmarinesurveys.com/survey-types/mca-coding/ http://www.ybdsa.co.uk/documents/NewMCACodingbrochure.pdf

Costs:

http://www.ydsa.co.uk/download/scv1.pdf

Portholes:

5.4.4
In an existing vessel, a portlight fitted below the weather deck and not provided with an attached deadlight should be provided with a “blank” (at the rate of 50% for each size of portlight
in the vessel), which can be efficiently secured in place in the event of breakage of the portlight.
5.4.4.1
Such a “blank” is not required for a non-opening portlight which satisfies 5.4.2

Source (this is the blue regs, but I was reading the latest MGN280 earlier, yeah I should get a life, and the wording was virtually identical which suggests yellow will be also)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/285649/blue.pdf

Edit: In the interests of completeness, the wording in yellow is virtually identical.

Perhaps as JFM suggests, yellow is actually different, but a little time with a search engine should reveal it, I'm a bit 'regs'd out' for now. As for whether storm shutters suffice, I'm not so sure. The paragraph states the method of fixing in the frame, as well as the glazing material should be of equivalent strength to the surrounding structure.

Edit: In the interests of completeness, the wording in yellow is virtually identical.

 

[westernman]

This info might be a bit dated - it was 8 years ago or so when I dealt with any of this stuff.

MCA coding requires liferaft inspections every year (even if the manufactures regime is every three years).

Category 2 (< 60 nm from a safe haven) is the most common coding. The Category 1 (< 120 nm from a safe haven) and Category 0 (unlimited) codings require water tight bulkheads such that complete flooding of anyone compartment of the boat will not cause it to sink. This is not always easy to retrofit in production boats which were not designed that way from the start.

The annual survey is required above 15m (not 20m). Below 15m you self certify every year. I think the yearly cost last time I looked was about 125 pounds.

For sail boats (this probably applies to mobos as well) the big deal and cost is the stability book and the stability requirements. This requires a naval architect to create and measure. In my case the stability book recommends that the skipper should reduce sail if the boat is healing more than 60 degrees. It also contains information about maximum angle of heal before down flooding etc (in my case more than 90 degrees if all the hatches are closed and the wash boards installed).

Category 0 coding requires a very extensive medical kit (with a body bag). That medical kit has drugs in it for which at least one crew member must have a medical qualification for in order to legally have those drugs on the boat. You need a big boat in order to have enough place to store all the kit required (stretchers, splints etc).

The body bag requirement used to be to have the same number of body bags as the maximum possible compliment of passengers and crew. Quite how the last person was supposed to get his bag zipped out is a bit of a mystery to me! It has now been reduced to just one.

The rest of the equipment required is not particularly onerous.

My boat was originally coded to category 0, but recoded to category 2 when I became owner (due to the medical kit issue).

I have let that lapse as I was just over 15m and would have had to fly in a suitably qualified surveyor each year to maintain it.

The legal requirements for skippered charter (boat coding and skipper qualifications required) or bareboat charter are less exacting from other flag states such as France.

 

[Pinnacle]

P

At the risk of telling you how to suck eggs.......if you are only going to use the boat for private pleasure purposes, and you were to keep the UK flag on a Part 1 certificate, there is no need for you to maintain the coded status of the boat.

If you wanted to operate it "commercially" then it would need to comply.

 

[BartW]

the annual survey brings some costs, you not only need to pay the Surveyor (one day) but also some of his travel cost. to the boat,
and I don't expect a Surveyor with MCA license to be living and or working in Carloforte...

than bringing all the gear up to date,
the LF is the most expensive, again you need a licensed company to dot it !

and than there is the small stuff to bring up to date, fire fighting systems /Fire extinguishers
medical box, LJ's, etc...

all together a lot of hassle to organise,
we dropped the commercial reg for BA.

 

[MapisM]

if you are only going to use the boat for private pleasure purposes, and you were to keep the UK flag on a Part 1 certificate, there is no need for you to maintain the coded status of the boat.

Yep P, yours is indeed a good point, because I neither "need" to keep the boat coded, nor UK flagged, actually.
It's just that among the few choices I have on my desk ATM, one is UK flagged and MCA coded, so I was just thinking along the lines of "if it's easy and inexpensive, why not keep it...?".

Thanks also to all others for the hints.

If the yearly surveys limit is at 15m, I'd be in, though 125 quids sounds dirt cheap, TBH.
Makes me wonder what the surveyor actually does when he comes onboard - not much more than have a look around and possibly a drink with the captain, I reckon!?
Ref category, 2 it would be for good: I have zero interest to "raise" the coding, just possibly to keep the existing one, if that! Actually, I mostly asked about cat 2 just out of curiosity, because in the Med 60nm means that you can neither go straight between the Baldricks and Sardinia, nor between Sardinia and Sicily - which is a big limitation.
Oh, and what does "portlight fitted below the weather deck" mean exactly? I suppose all normal portholes fitted on the hull sides, as opposed to deck hatches?

Anyhow, I guess that BartW is spot on, when all is said and done.
Considering all the direct and indirect costs and the hassle, I might not only get rid of coding, but maybe also go for a Belgian flag while I am at that...
...As I'm told, among EU flags it's one of the least demanding in terms of bureaucracy!
B, wadduthink?

 

[jfm]

Yep to all / most above.
Cat 2 is by far the most common.
Those typical IT metal lids will be ok.
Yellow book and MGn 280 are materially different on port lights iirc, which is why I use yellow.
Yep "Under weather deck" means hull portholes but not deck hatches.
The 60nm isn't a significant limitation because you'd have to be crazy to take charter guests on a 120 nm open water passage imho. Get them to fly and meet the boat.
AIUI and definitely in my actual experience, if the LR manufacturer says 3 years service then the coding surveyor accepts that as ok for coding.
Easier to let it lapse. I did with mine!

 

[Nick_H]

We're 16.92m on the Part1, and were only required to have a surveyor do a 5 year OOW inspection, and a mid term in-water check. Annual inspections were self cert. I guess the 15m cut off that Westernman refers to is measured in the same way as the 24m limit, and is closer to waterline length?

LR service was every 3 years for canister rafts, and our surveyor accepted self-cert for the lifejackets (I weighed the cylinders and inflated the jackets for 24 hours once a year) Auto fire extinguisher check every year. Our portholes have thumbscrew closures and this was OK without the need for storm shutters.

If you don't plan to charter the boat, i'd definitely let it lapse.

 

[MapisM]

guess the 15m cut off that Westernman refers to is measured in the same way as the 24m limit, and is closer to waterline length?

Interesting.
The boat concerned is 18m LOA, and I'm not sure about the LWL, but it might well be within 15m (just, I suppose).
Otoh, the LLL (which as I understand is the relevant number for the 24m rule) is something I don't even dare thinking who would be able to calculate... :nonchalance:

Oh, well. I guess you are right anyway, probably easier to just let it lapse and be done with that.