MBY: Solo Across Biscay - stupid beyond question...

[Oen]

I must say I'm horrified by MBY's article on the chap who set off across Biscay solo on a Grand Banks. I've got lots of reasons for questioning the article, but I'll keep my powder dry for the mo...

My main concern is that the article has no admission that this was a fundamentally stupid thing to do? What does the panel think?

 

[Chris_d]

Probably no more stupid than trying to move your boat across the marina in a gale on your own, depends on the experience of the person concerned.
Everything in life is a calculated risk.

 

[Oen]

I'm horrified by the bloke's lack of awareness - or dismissal - of fatigue and its effects... I don't think that would be a factor in moving your boat across the marina!

If you calculated the risk inherent in taking a mobo across Biscay solo, you wouldn't do it.

 

[Nick_H]

I haven't seen the article, but Ellen Macarthur went round the world single handed, does that make her reckless or adventurous?

 

[Talbot]

lots of raggies do that same trip single handed, why should it be more foolhardy in a well prepared suitable mobo?

 

[Oen]

There are significant inherent differences between a mobo and a yacht...

Yachts are generally built for heavy weather, mobos are not (viz. the acres of glass on a GB or Trader), yachts can generally be hove to or set up to ride out bad weather, mobos can not, yachts generally have simpler means of propulsion and rely less on the technology keeping going particularly in rough weather, yachts travel more slowly - more with the weather than through it - the motion and way of life on a yacht is less physically demanding, owing to the manner in which the boat travels (soft ride, permanently heeled perhaps) whereas the ride and physical conditions on a mobo are much more demanding (constant loud noise, constant rolling and pitching).

Then, there's the question of keeping watch and colregs - solo sailors come up with their own reasoning of course... That doesn't make them right.

Finally, where was the necessity? Why risk your neck (and the necks of your putative rescuers) needlessly?

 

[Dave_Snelson]

You just have to be winding us up - surely???

Lets deal with your points one by one:-

Why on earth do you think yachts are generally built for heavy weather, rather than mobos?? Then you cite a Trader as an example. Ever been in one?? Or a Windy, or a Skagen, or a Nordhaven? The assertion you make is rubbish.

Mobos can't be set to ride out rough weather?? Since when? What the heck do you think skilled skippers do?

The motion and way of life in a yacht is less phyically demanding?? Now you really are having a laugh /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Heeling over in a slow moving device that stands no chance of at least keeping up with the waves that are crashing over the stern is no small business. Being at an impossible angle (apart from Cats) all day is knackering. Having to put effort into continually setting the sails according to conditions can be very demanding compared to helming a rugged mobo with more than enough power to take on manoevers to counter bad weather and waves. And besides, two engines with separated dual systems and electronics are reliable enough.

Loud noise?? Are you thinking of a speedboat with open exhausts or summink? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Your last point re watch and colregs may have some validity but you would be picking an argument with a few thousand solo yachtsmen there that have difficulty keeping watch with a full compliment of sails flying anyway.

Please...go tell your story to the Navy, they gave up on sails a century ago. Better still, when you are really in a jam and need help at sea, ask the RNLI to assist you only with a sail boat - and see what reaction you get.

 

[Aardee]

Sure it has it's risks but so do skydiving, hang-gliding, off-piste skiing, offshore sailing, riding a motorcycle etc etc etc.

No-one forces us to do any of these things, but are they really "fundamentally stupid" things to do??

There's nothing wrong in taking a risk from time to time. If we never looked for the boundaries, we'd never know our limitations...

Graham.

PS: All said having not actually READ the article. I'm assuming the guy took the usual precautions & had a pretty good idea of what he was letting himself in for.

 

[Oen]

dave,

No wind-up here...

I've taken a trader across Biscay, as it happens, and I stand by what I wrote. I certainly wouldn't have any problems taking a Nordhavn across Biscay (nor spelling one /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif ) with a proper crew, but the Trader is not in the same league - it misses by miles. The main problem with sleeping on the Trader was the slamming if you tried to sleep in the bows, and the engine noise anywhere else. By the way, care to point out the sea berth on a Trader??? No? Of course, it hasn't got one! Care to show me the Trader helm seat which stops the helmsman from sliding off sideways every time the thing rolls? No? Of course, it hasn't got one... Etc etc ad nauseam...

Skilled skippers do their best, but are limited by the boats at their disposal. Tell me then, how are YOU going to make a GB ride out the really rough stuff, all by yourself?

And now you're having a laugh... Do you really think the RNLI would send a lone man out on a Grand Banks???!!!! Rubbish!!! You've made my point for me. The right boat (have you any idea how different an AWLB is to a production motor cruiser?) with a strong crew is one thing, and perhaps we should ask the lifeboatmen here if they would rather be out solo on a yacht or a production mobo in a storm... I think we both know what the answer would be...

Mystique, you're right. But would you do any of those things when chronically fatigued?

 

[duncan]

Firstly I haven't read the article but am responding to your post; or more specifically the point you seem to be making that it is inherently inappropriate to take such a craft single handed on such a voyage.

To this specific point I disagree. I can picture weather conditions / window, individuals (health and experience) and level of equipement on the craft that would not make this any more inherently unsafe than many sh sailors do over and over again.

In general I would agree with some of the comparisons you make between sail and power but suggest that this only makes them better equipped to head of into generally more unknown, or known harsher, conditions.

I look forward to reading the actual account; and suspect that I will end up concluding that it wasn't the most sensible option under the circumstances - but that of course is a different issue.

 

[Dyflin]

I agree that single handing long distance is irresponsible and dangerous (they have banned solo round Ireland records). If and when you have to turn in for a kip then who the hell is keeping a lookout?! It's a real bugbear of mine and I really don't think that it should be promoted in the way it is.

As for bad weather, I've been across Biscay quite a few times on "big" ships (86,000 mt) and all I can say is it can get very ugly whenthe big Atlantic rollers come in...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Don't make the mistake of comparing a Grand Banks against a Trader (although Trader dealers would very much like you to think that). The Trader hull is basically a hard chine semi planing hull with a bit of a keel. They're built down to a price for peeps who think they're getting a trawlery type hull for relatively cheapo money. The GB generally has a more rounded deeper keeled hull which is going to be better at looking after you in a blow and a significantly better build quality although it still has windows like any other mobo. Given the choice I'd have the GB every time
You know what though, I have to agree with you. I think it was foolhardy to do that trip singlehanded when it would have been so easy to get crew but then I also think its foolhardy to set off on a singlehanded yacht race. IMHO, the Australian airforce or whoever fishes the Tony Bullimore's of this world out of the Southern Ocean ought to be slapping them with a bill for the service

 

[jhr]

Oooh; is this wind up Gludy time? But I agree that a GB is more Nordhavn than Trader.

Haven't read the article yet, so I'll suspend judgement on the rest.

 

[rickp]

No, I don't think its fundamentally stupid or "stupid beyond question" - but lets rip the guy to shreds anyway. That way we'll have less people willing to put themselves (and possibly their mistakes) forward for scrutiny and less interesting magazines.

Rick
(tongue only somewhat in cheek)

 

[D3B]

Did you see the article about the family going in an Elling to Lanzarote?

 

[rickp]

Yes, I saw it when flicking through - but not read it yet (or the other article). Think I've spoken to Keith when we were thinking of the Elling - his is the older style E4 that was at SIBS the year before last, I believe.

Rick

 

[Gludy]

"The main problem with sleeping on the Trader was the slamming if you tried to sleep in the bows, and the engine noise anywhere else."

Thats depends on what systems you specify - some are very low noise.

"Care to show me the Trader helm seat which stops the helmsman from sliding off sideways every time the thing rolls?"

You can specify the helm - I have and have good seats with proper support plus stabilisers to stop rolling.

You really should not make these grand assumptions.

As regards your general point, my view is that I would not do that trip Solo in any boat. It is a bit silly to do that trip solo. I also think single handed sailing is a bit silly and i would not do that either. However, I hope we have silly people around for a long time to come- its part of the risk they choose to take and I fully appreciate the risk they might entail for the rescuers.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Just dangling a fly to see what bites /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[duncan]

hey - you're back!

 

[brianrunyard]

If she'd calculated the risks inherent in taking any boat singlehanded around the world and not used her own judgement, Ellen Macarthur wouldn't have done it.
In fact if you calculated the risks involved in doing anything, you'd probably take the easy way and stay home, but then a plane may crash on the roof.