Mauling on Scuttlebut.

[Hugo_Andreae]

For the record we have already contacted most of the main manufacturers and so far have only recieved a luke warm response with none of them willing to go on the record as overtly supporting the campaign

As far as I can tell this is for one of two reasons

1) They would rather not publicise the fact that red diesel may be about to triple in cost for fear of putting off potential new boat purchasers.

2) They are concerned that it may look hypocritical if they started claiming that their customers couldn't afford to pay more for their diesel given that most of them produce boats costing upwards of £500,000 many of which end up being exported abroad.

Personally, I don't agree with either stance. Buyers have a right to know what is going on and ignoring the problem in the hope that it goes away isn't going to solve it. I can understand that it may look a little rich if Sunseeker started claiming that their buyers couldn't afford to buy fuel for their £3.5million 105ft motoryacht but there are plenty of other sound reasons to fight the changes than price alone. Besides if they are concerned that the price hike may put buyers off then their is clearly a case that the price rises will damage their businesses, regardless of whether their customers could technically afford to pay more.

Hugo

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[Gludy]

Hugo, as you know I am very much in support of the approach you have taken on MBM.

I note your comments on the boat manufacturers - whilst its a pity your guesswork is probably right.

I have my own doubts about a public campaign based on affordability - not because motor boaters can afford it but because public issues tend to become polarised around very few simple issues and its so easy to lose out - points like if you can afford £50k (let alone £1.5m) on a boat then you can afford the fuel would go against our cause. Careful handling and well chosen case studies are required. I think we have to put more weight on the many other points in the charter.

I know that in Swansea where we have over 700 boats in the marina and club, the effect of road priced diesel would be staggering. The last time I filled up at the Marina - a few weeks back I paid 23p per litre. So if any cases are taken on the effect of price rises forcing folks out of the market - they need to be based on normal boat owners doing normal jobs who have sacrificed a lot to get and hold onto their boat having to say bye bye to it and get out of cruising power boats. These case studies should be the focus.

I can provide leads to many genuine case studies - boaters who would have to get out of boating, whilst I know many who simply refuse to believe that something so extreme as having to pay road fuel rates could ever happen!

The manufacturers business will be hit - there are many boats remain in the UK that would move away and it would devastate the domestic marine cruising power boat market. I would hope that one day you can get some sort of explanation out of them about their silence.




<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Quite willing to be a case study, being one of those normal people who makes sacrifices to be able to afford a boat.

I work for the NHS too, which might help. My wife is a childminder so neither of us are in highly paid employment.

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[adrianm]

I had to take my MBM Red Diesel sticker off my car because off the endless hassle I was getting from yachties and from people at work.

Work colleagues were of the opinion that it is disgusting that pleasure boaters should get any cheap fuel at all, which too be honest I actually agree with. What I don't agree with is us losing our cheap fuel because its out of line with europe and then being charged road prices which are equally out of line with europe!

The stick and rag brigade that accosted my in Brighton just seem to think that they will have the whole sea to themselves if the fuel duty goes up. They didn't seem very happy when I told them my boat has a 2,500 mile range and I could fill up anyhere!


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[Aardee]

As a yachtie, I can only apologise for any stick my fellow "raggies" may have given you, I actually like sharing the water with a wide variety of boats.

The sad fact of the matter is that your work colleages have hit the nail firmly on the head. Joe Public doesn't generally know that we use low-duty fuel. If they did they would soon be actively campaigning to have our "rich man's privilege" taken away.

No public support = no political support = no chance.

Only 2500 miles??? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Graham.


<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me" - A A Milne.

 

[Doffy]

Brooms already resigned to fact

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[Gludy]

"just seem to think that they will have the whole sea to themselves "

I think they may well have the sea to themselves. Its one reason why the RYA seem to be actively adopting a stupid policy as for that matter so is Motor Boat & Yachting magazine.

If diesel prices reach road fuel levels it will be the end of motor cruising in the UK.
I agree that we cannot expect the support of joe public but their reaction is based on ignorance and emotion not logic. It has to be taken into account as its very important - the real arguement has to be based upon the logic of the tax not achieving its objectives.

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[Aardee]

The government will do anything to avoid applying logic to taxation policy...



<hr width=100% size=1>"I am a bear of very little brain and long words bother me" - A A Milne.

 

[Mollari]

Too true

If road fuel and Red fuel prices were brought in line with European prices everyone would be happy, or rather it would be a good compromise. Having a smog monster myself, I would rather pay European prices for my boat and my car than pay UK prices for boat and car.

Sadly the Government misapropriates the tax we all pay, and we are all held over the same barrel because of one reason, No matter which political party gets elected, the government always wins and the public always loses.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://mysite.freeserve.com/leisure_marine_prep>http://mysite.freeserve.com/leisure_marine_prep</A>

 

[robind]

I also don`t understand this attitude as they (sail boat persons) deplete the worlds resources as well with Grp hulls, bleached sails, cast keels, wrought fittings, engines, manmade fibre sails and warps and timbers from non sustainable forests etc. Oh! and some even use red diesel too. I come from a sailing background and still I don`t accept the apparent short sighteness of some (and I say some) sailors.
Rob

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[robind]

Perhaps we support the french and other EU countries with their struggle to get boating diesel prices down to our level. should we have gone to Calais today?

Regards
Rob



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[ShipsWoofy]

er, I don't throw my boat away after each trip.

I expect my sails to last at least 10 years.
My hull is already 27
No keels
Very little timber, prolly non sustained, would not buy from a yard now if they could not prove that it comes from a sustained plantation. I am a tree hugger. I would guess you have more wood on board than me, and definitely more at home.
My ropes and sheets, last many years as do yours
This year (2004) I have used approx 44 lts of diesel.

The rest can be found on both types of vessel.

Your argument is apples and oranges.

The thread started by saying you must get the raggies support, this type of post isn't really going to help. I signed the petition for what it is worth and I think you will find more raggies on your side than not, so I suggest in the interest of friendly boating you might like to wind your neck in a bit for fear of losing a few more bums on seats from the oh so wasteful rag and stick brigade.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>

 

[Gludy]

"er, I don't throw my boat away after each trip."

But in one go your purchase of the boat, for pleasure consumes more resources of the planet than many people manage in many years in third world countries.

If you take the stance you do, you must take into account the whole picture. A 300 foot motor yachts naturally consumes more resources than a 300 foot one and just because you do not throw your boat away each trip does not somehow reverse the resources you have consumed. So your response is invalid!

"I am a tree hugger. I would guess you have more wood on board than me, and definitely more at home."

I have about 30 acres of woodland, much of which is decidous - I leave it as a nature reseve - does qualify me to use more wood on a bigger boat? Once you start going down these simplistic green issues you quicjly get into the base quations about who is allowed to consume what and you end up in a communist style system.... which itself became massibe polluter.

"The thread started by saying you must get the raggies support, this type of post isn't really going to help. "

The truth should help .. those raggies who behave holier than thou have to be brought into the real world, the majority of raggies who are not like that would enjoy them being brought down a peg or two as well. Its exactly the same for those snobbish power boat owners who ride around bouncing every yacht all over the place in their wake.



<hr width=100% size=1>Paul