Market positioning and perceptions

Wiggo

New member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
6,021
Location
In front of the bloody computer again
Visit site
OK, at EyeNo's suggestion I'd like to kick this off. So some 'house rules': this thread is not intended to bash any given marque, nor to score points. What I want to do is understand where the major brands position themselves - who do they think their target customers are, and what are their customers' values; and what do we, the buyers think of the various brands - not 'X is better than Y', but 'I think X is aimed at such and such a type of buyer'.

So to kick off, here are some bits culled from the manufacturers' websites, in no particular order:

"Our hallmark is to produce a product which utilises state of the are technology with a distinct design concept running through our product range. We manufacture sports cruisers, motor cruisers and motor yachts without compromise in accomodation or functionality."
- Sealine

"The Princess name is synonymous with the most advanced range of performance motor yachts. Built without compromise and dedicated to the enjoyment of the boating experience - the exploration of new places, reaching the inaccessible and making the world your own."
- Princess

"These are boats that exemplify, perhaps even define, the concept of the long-range cruiser specifically designed for adventure and exploration...Practical design features and the thoughtful use of all the valuable space on board, make any Phantom the perfect live-aboard boat, while the unstinting use of fine woods, high quality fabrics and elegant detailing ensures a luxurious and sophisticated environment."
- Fairline Phantom range

"Few brands can confidently claim to rank amongst the world's finest. Sunseeker is one of them. We are a brand with enormous global strength. Part of our success lies in our commitment to setting new standards. We believe in the power of innovation; in the tireless pursuit of excellence; in never settling for second best."
- Sunseeker
 

Wiggo

New member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
6,021
Location
In front of the bloody computer again
Visit site
So IMO, Sealine appear to position themselves very clearly as more 'no-frills' than the others, focussing on technology and functionality. My guess is that they target the more 'value for money' conscious buyer, possibly aiming at the family, rather than positioning themselves as a 'lifestyle statement'. A bit of a Ronseal job, then.

Fairline make a big play of 'no compromise', luxury and sophistication. Perhaps aimed at an upmarket buyer, possibly slightly older than the Sealine target punter?

Don't know enough about the others to comment.
 

gcwhite

New member
Joined
8 Mar 2004
Messages
315
Visit site
Sunseeker have developed their range from high speed power sports cruisers to include flybridge boats and of course seem to be going bigger each year. They have, at the same time, introduced a smaller flybridge the Manhattan 50. This boat has attracted an enormous amount of interest. In one year they have sold over 50 of these boats. Their market, in my view, is wealthy upwardly mobile, people who want the best, want to be seen with the best and will pay for it. They are the top of the range of the British builders. They use only the finest materials within the boat.

Fairline are aiming for a toned down version of the above but again the interior fittings and build quality is of a high level..

Princess target a more conservative market and their designs reflect this. They don't introduce flamboyant state of the art models but move forward in a steady fashion. Many of their models reflect design concepts of some 10 years ago but using up to date techniques and equipment. Similar build quality to Fairline.

Sealine are aiming at the new comer to the market who wants his/her boat fitted with all the latest equipment and gadgets but at a lower price. Their strategy is to offer very good deals on the smaller boats to tempt cautious first time buyers and then to keep these customers by offering generous trade ins against the larger boats. I expect that their smaller boats are loss leaders. The lower prices for Sealines have to be reflected in the quality of the fittings which is why they use plastic veneer and pseudo teak in certain locations within the boat and why the flybridge tends to have less usable area with almost half dedicated to sunbathing..

I know that the boat builders have conducted surveys to see what types of cars the owners of the various marques purchase. The results were:

Sunseeker: Bentley, Porsche, Ferrari, sporty top of the range Mercs.
Fairline: Mercs, larger BMW, Jaguar sports
Princess: Jaguar, Rolls
Sealine: Lexus, sporty smaller BMW, top of range Fords, Vauxhalls
 

Dave_Snelson

Active member
Joined
16 Oct 2001
Messages
11,618
Location
Porthmadog / Port Leucate
www.makeyourowngarments.com
Interesting...I cannot find any such market positioning blurb on the Windy site www.windy.no. Also interestingly, Windy take a very "engineering" approach to the descriptions of their boats (build quality, handling, ride, performance), and no mention of market position or any type of person that the product may suit.

Again, interesting...Windy don't have any class or range of vessel, like "Phantom" or "Targa" where there are defined group sets of vessels with differing sizes.

I guess that means I'm not much use to you here Wiggo! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 

Kevin

New member
Joined
27 Sep 2003
Messages
602
Location
it varies, sometimes minute to minute
Visit site
The problem with the bits from the websites is I dont think they give much of an insight into market positioning but I see them purely as extensions of Tag Lines used in films, they seem to be offering more in the way of perception than a serious intended statement about their products marketing or market positioning

thats not me having a go at your post by the way its just pointing out how i see those extracts

Kevin
 

jhr

Well-known member
Joined
26 Nov 2002
Messages
20,256
Location
Royston Vasey
jamesrichardsonconsultants.co.uk
Windy

That, in itself, says something about their market positioning, doesn't it? i.e. that they are targeting their boats at people to whom build quality, handling, ride and performance are more important than the image of their social status that their boat conveys to other people.

Therefore, I'd conjecture that, in branding terms, a Windy owner is someone who has lots of money* (given their pricing), but doesn't actually care whether that's evident to the average onlooker. What matters to them is that they are seen as a knowledgeable boater who prizes practical considerations above glamour, but whose craft is also (to anybody in the know) amongst the pick of the bunch.

Maybe.....


(*Cue hollow laughter from Mr Snelson, no doubt /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)
 

Dave_Snelson

Active member
Joined
16 Oct 2001
Messages
11,618
Location
Porthmadog / Port Leucate
www.makeyourowngarments.com
Re: Windy

The laughter wasn't just hollow - it was howling!

I reckon you are right with your shake down on Windy marketing. It has that no-nonsense Norwegian factuality about it. And for all the fabled interior niceties (of which I cannot afford one) they aren't positioned at the stay-in-the-harbour, never-go-anywhere brigade.

I find that the way Windy price their boats is odd. The 28 Ghibli has an outrageuos starting price of £90k, whilst other larger models seem more reasonable (ish!).
 

jfm

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
23,953
Location
Jersey/Antibes
Visit site
where they advertise

Not sure it helps the nalysis much but note where they adrvertise, outside of the boatie mags:

fairline/princess - the BMW and Merc magazines, (sent to buyers of those cars, not available to buy). NB these are the ONLY print media places these guys advertise AFAIK, outside the boatie mags

Sseeker - the above, plus BA in flight mag (in which advertising costs a fortune)

Sealine - ??? not sure they advertise at all outside boatie mags
 

rickp

Active member
Joined
10 Nov 2002
Messages
5,913
Location
New Zealand
Visit site
Re: where they advertise

Surely that has to be set against the size of boats made? Out of the 4 mentioned, do any produce anything sub 30' other than Sealine? That has to have some bearing on the target market for any advertising - where Sealine are obviously still trying to attract first time customers for smaller boats.

Now if Sealine abandoned that market (as the other 3 seem to have done), perhaps they'd change where they spend their advertising budget.

Rick
 

goochie

New member
Joined
16 Oct 2004
Messages
1,232
Location
Croydon
Visit site
Interesting one this. I confess I have watched some of the Sealine bashing on this site with interest. I seem to remember that in the 1970's the British had a large number of buiders making very high quality sailing boats in small numbers, and even those like Westerly were still built up to a quality rather than down to a price. How many of those are left? How many Beneteau's, Jeanneau's and Bavarias do we now see in the average British marina? The French realised that they could build a boat that suited most peoples requirements i.e. It did not have to cross the Atlantic, was used mostly for w/e cruising, didn't have to be full of teak, was consequently cheaper to make and sell.

Likewise with mobo's? It's clear that at the moment the Brits hold sway in the Med 40' plus market (a glance around any Spanish port will confirm that), but likewise any boat under 40' is equally likely to be a Beneteau, Jeanneau OR - a Sealine.

The British builders have done a fantastic job growing with the bigger boat market and make superb products that the whole world wants to buy, but they ignore the mass market at their peril. It's all very well making a wealth statement with a Sunseeker, but many people now want to make a lifestyle statement with their boat. Bravo Sealine. We need this kind of agile marketing oriented company in Britain.
 

Wiggo

New member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
6,021
Location
In front of the bloody computer again
Visit site
I quite agree, Kevin. In fact it was nigh on impossible to find anything approaching a mission statement or a positioning statement from any of the big four.

What I find interesting is that it has clarified (for me, at least) one thing about the historic Sealine bashing - I disagree that Sealine's build quality is any lower than the others, but I would accept that their level of detailing is lower at a given size point. I think this is quite deliberate. It's like the diference between a Nissan Micra and a Merc: the build quality (i.e. how many things go wrong, fall off, break etc within the first x years) are probably broadly similar, but the level of specification and finish are clearly different.
 
D

Deleted User YDKXO

Guest
Well given that all this brochure spiel is written by spotty ecstasy-hazed gelled up yoofs in cheapo ad agencies I dont think you can read anything into what's written in a brochure - the boat industry is'nt that sophisticated anyway

I would argue with your conclusions anyway eg:

"without compromise in accomodation or functionality" - Sealine
"Practical design features and the thoughtful use of all the valuable space on board" - Fairline

Whats the difference? Does'nt tell me one is chasing the luxury buyer and the other the family buyer

As for Princess "the exploration of new places, reaching the inaccessible and making the world your own" - thats just cringeworthy bollox

The only coherent marketing strategy is Sunseeker. Quite clearly they are pushing the brand rather than the product to those brand conscious people for whom a Rolex tells you the time better than a Seiko, a Merc is faster than a Lexus, a Gucci handbag carries more than a M & S one and Sunseeker make better boats than Fairline (yeah, right). Seems to work though
 

oldgit

Well-known member
Joined
6 Nov 2001
Messages
28,470
Location
Medway
Visit site
All above value style over practicality ?.

As compared to say the Dutch who build a boat designed to do a job and what ever the boat ends up looking like afterwards is secondary.Most of their craft change little in appearance over the years but still manage employ the latest techo stuff engine and electronics wise.
 

tcm

...
Joined
11 Jan 2002
Messages
23,958
Location
Caribbean at the moment
Visit site
sealine

um, you have driftyed into a discuission about actual boats, not the marketing of them.

But anyway, fwiw, i think that the prob (for me) of some sealine items are not that the detailing is "lower" or even "cheaper" - as i understand that for some items they actually choose MORE expensive materials than others in your list. No, the problem is that some items simply looks a "bit naff" - plastic wood fablon on flybridge wd be better as a delete option, likewise the fake birds-eye maple, the godawful aluminium caravnesque items from windows frames to cleats. Now, they sell lots of boats so praps it doesn't matter. But they mite sell MORE boats if some things that many are blind to - were changed.
 

Wiggo

New member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
6,021
Location
In front of the bloody computer again
Visit site
Re: sealine

Not sure it got that far off topic, did it?

Anyway, fake birds-eye maple screen print is a high tech solution to real wood veneer going manky, like wot it does on some F'line Targa's I've seen (Hagrid had a load of dash panels replaced for this, ISTR). It's classic Britsh innovation like the sqaure steering wheel Allegro, and the Sinclair C5.

Left to people you, we'd all still be dressed in animal skins, rather than using them for carpets...

They binned the last of the naff window frames around the time the F36 got superceded by the F37, AFAIK. And I rather like my ally cleats (or are they bitts?)
 
D

Deleted User YDKXO

Guest
Banged to rights

The fake walnut veneer on the dashboard ("unstinting use of fine woods" - Fairline brochure) of my previous Fairline Targa 48 was peeling off like nothing I've ever seen on a Sealine and I'm sure Sealine would'nt fix handholds with 1/2" self tappers ("Practical design features" "elegant detailing" - Fairline brochure)
 

Blackfeather

Active member
Joined
21 Dec 2004
Messages
2,220
Location
Now on the Thames
www.blackfeatherboatcharter.com
[ QUOTE ]
Sunseeker have developed their range from high speed power sports cruisers to include flybridge boats and of course seem to be going bigger each year. They have, at the same time, introduced a smaller flybridge the Manhattan 50. This boat has attracted an enormous amount of interest. In one year they have sold over 50 of these boats. Their market, in my view, is wealthy upwardly mobile, people who want the best, want to be seen with the best and will pay for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So Sunseekers aren't just a penile substitutue then?
 

jfm

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
23,953
Location
Jersey/Antibes
Visit site
style and practicality are not mutually exclusive

To my mind oldgit that's inexcusible. It is perfectly possible to make a good seaboat with good gear that looks good as well. Aesthetics are very important (though beauty is in the eye of the beholder). Those trudgy Dutch boats that are well built and seaworthy but look absolute shite are miserable failures imho and their builders deserve no praise.

This failing isn't a particularly Dutch thing. Indeed the dutch do build some of the (if not the) finest looking AND best built boats on the planet, esp at the larger sizes a la Feadship and Huisman and Amels, Oceanco et al the next level down

(Sorry this is off topic a bit. Let's get back to the marketing thing)
 

tcm

...
Joined
11 Jan 2002
Messages
23,958
Location
Caribbean at the moment
Visit site
Re: sealine

i though point scoring wasn't allowed?

anyway, the ally frames haven't gone, although admittedly most are at smaller models.

If "bitts" is the latest street word meaning "looks like something from MFI" then yes, i'm afraid the ally cleats are indeed "bitts" and it's for reasons as tiny as this that some people decide for or against buying a particular brand.
 
Top