Marine engines - money where the mouth is.

[Guest]

There have been several posts on the theme of "Rip Off Volvo" On the other hand, I have seen Caterpillar's referred to as bullet proof several times. Is it time to prove it? Would it be a good idea to get an online survey going on popular marine engines along the lines of age, repair spend last season, hours per season, etc, etc. If say the top twenty engines by hp/manufacturer were selected and the forum all owned up to their experiences it would give a useful indication of the real cost of ownership of a particular type and maybe invite some comments from the manufacturers. Results to be published in MBM or MBY

HLB's input would be interesting!

This would be interesting for me as I am "between boats" at present and such info could help my choices.

Hows about it Kim - Possible?

Nick

 

[jfm]

Would be a good idea. Maybe not statistically perfect but who cares, this forum is free to do it if we want. Shall we all reply here and you compile results or did you mean set up a survey proper like?
Also I dont think there's one "best" answer. In the low hp Yanmars etc might be good. In the mid hp (Volvo territory)Cats are well liked. In the big hp range you have a whole pile of new contenders esp the german kit like mtu and man, not a volvo in sight

JFM

 

[kimhollamby]

Re: suggestions for the agenda

<Free to do it if you want> Yes, certainly, but please let's have factually accurate reports so that it doesn't mislead users and also land us in a legal position of having to suspend part or all of the thread. That should include, in an ideal world, failures that have been caused at least in part by owner negligence and by inadequate or tight installation.

Also, in order to get the fairest result it should also reflect, if at all possible, the sheer numbers of engines in circulation from different manufacturers. For example (and not at all wishing to defend any brand) it is far easier to pick holes in Volvo Penta per se because there are so many more of their engines fitted to boats than any other. The thread only holds real value if positive reports are submitted as well as negative ones.

The frustrating problems I had with a KAD44 on MBM's Missing Link (warped valve due to service errors in turn not helped by rocker cover design) were well documented on the site and the magazine in 1999/2000 but in fairness to Volvo I also put over 2000 hours without significant problems on four different 44s in the previous three years and 2400 trouble-free hours on three different TMD31s fitted to my displacement Pedros over a period of seven years, the only major gripe being 100hr service intervals that made dealer servicing on a well-used displacement cruiser an expensive business. They were a bit smokey at times but then they were often asked to operate at loads and load-cycles not exactly suited to a high-revving four-cyclinder turbocharged diesel. Why not lazy naturally-aspirated sixes? Because we couldn't afford the cost or the space penalty. Increasingly Euro/US emission regulation will rule out low tech anyway.

You might also want to throw in the factor of dealer availability. How important to you is it that there should be a fixed marque-authorised engineering and spares shop close by all intended cruising grounds, or is a man in a van (who might just give priority to the local haulage contractor's fleet of 50 trucks) adequate? Is mail order supply of spares the way to go or should you be able to shop locally when it is discovered, too late, that the spares locker is about as full as Old Mother Hubbard's Cupboard?

Could this be the first 100 message thread ever? If everyone chips in with honest feedback and views, that should be the half of it. In anticipation...

 

[jfm]

Re: A very boring report

OK here goes if we're posting on here direct....

We have 2 x 370hp Volvo TAMD63p. Installed in 1999 Fairline Phantom 42. 340 hours. Still inside 3 yr warranty, just. Serviced by Volvo main agent in Lymington.

I have nothing to report except that one of the tachos bust after 6 months and was replaced. The engines just start and stop. I hate the green colour but next time I'll pay extra for white.

I have data for fuel consumption, but particular to our boat so not much use for anyone else. Annual winterisation service cost £1070 last time, £805 the year before. Plus £451 last time for a mid season oil change. All including VAT

Sorry not a more eventful filing......!

JFM

 

[Guest]

Re: suggestions for the agenda

All good points. Hows about putting together a little questionnaire with a link. I suggest categorising engines as say
Petrol or diesel
up to 150hp
151 - 300 hp
301 - 500 hp
over 500hp

Manufacturer
Precise model
Boat installed in
Age
Design max revs
Your average cruising revs
Who services - self, agent, marina, other
Hours now
Average hours per season
Major repairs outside routine servicing
Cause of problem - manufacture/design, self, combination
Cost of winterisation
Cost of spring commissioning
Would you recommend this engine or buy another boat with same?
Other comments
This is sort of coming off the top of my head at the moment but if we were to sort out a set of standard questions first then, if people send me their thoughts I will undertake to send results to MBM/MBY and publish on forum.

 

[markc]

Re: A very boring report

Did you really pay just £451 for an oil change?! Perhaps this thread could also include comparative costs on servicing etc!

M

 

[longjohnsilver]

Black Gold

That struck me as a pretty hefty bill for a couple of filters and maybe 10 gallons or so of oil. For my Mermaid 215hp oil (Shell Rimula 15/40) about £20 and filter less than a fiver. Job takes about half an hour, total cost excluding my time less than £25, and I know it's been done properly.

 

[jfm]

Re: Black Gold

Agree it looks expensive. I wd do it myself but do not have time and the boat is 100miles away. I think you get to it by paying top whack for the oil (as in garage forecourt prices, £30 for a 4 litre can of semisynthetic) plus £100 in labour I spose.

To be frank there is always a sub plot in these things. Don't want to reveal too much on an open BB but think about this: Q: How come there's a 1000 boat wait list at the best marinas, but some people get in straight away? A: maybe by promising not to diy but to use the yard for all servicing.

It's a free market.




JFM

 

[markc]

Re: Black Gold

Ahhh....the waiting list question. I experienced 'no space here' earlier this year when I wanted to move the boat. So I begged....and begged....and got a mooring!! It helped being a visitor at the time and 'refusing' to move the boat! In fact, a mate have the exact same situation in the summer at another 'full' marina and jumped the queue. Tip - want a mooring?...move the boat there as a visitor and wait it out

M

 

[byron]

Re: suggestions for the agenda

Kim has a valid point. If there are say 1000 Volvos out there to every 1 Cat. Then surely the incidence of Volvo problems will be 1000 times greater. Evince commercial shipping. The Greeks run more ships than anyone else so you will hear more of Greek owned vessels being in trouble than say of Bangladeshi owned vessels.

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