Marina Diesel Prices (no, not a moan!)

[gravygraham]

Hi folks, I've just been looking at a forum post from before xmas about prices, but I made not too much sense of it. I'm doing some sums on a new (to me) boat and not having bought any marina diesel since September 2010 I'm a bit out of touch with £'s per litre. Any chance one or two of you could let me know what the going rate seems to be these days. Many thanks.

P.S. anyone care to spill the beans on the mpg (or should that be gpm!) for what their 35' - 40' flybridges do. The one I'm looking at has a planing 36' (38' loa) hull with two 300hp Volvos, shaft drive. Rough figures please - I apreciate there's many variables. TIA.

 

[AdeOlly]

Last week diesel was £1.16 at Northney (MDL) on 60/40 before bertholder discount.

 

[andy59]

I have an F36 with KAMD 44s and on the trip up from brixham to lymington she did bang on 1.2 mpg at 23 knots , not sure how different the 300s are but i would think they may be very slightly better , ( more power , less rpm ).

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Hi folks, I've just been looking at a forum post from before xmas about prices, but I made not too much sense of it. I'm doing some sums on a new (to me) boat and not having bought any marina diesel since September 2010 I'm a bit out of touch with £'s per litre. Any chance one or two of you could let me know what the going rate seems to be these days. Many thanks.

P.S. anyone care to spill the beans on the mpg (or should that be gpm!) for what their 35' - 40' flybridges do. The one I'm looking at has a planing 36' (38' loa) hull with two 300hp Volvos, shaft drive. Rough figures please - I apreciate there's many variables. TIA.

A typical price per litre is 85p before duty. Some marinas will reduce this base price for higher quantities, eg 77p for over 1500 litres.

Duty is charged at 49.15p per litre as defined by HMRC. If no relief is claimed for non-propulsion use, this is applied to 100% of the fuel. You the purchaser has to declare the propulsion/non-propulsion split and the retailer has to apply it - they should NOT be telling you that it is 60/40, even though the Govt have indicated that this is a reasonable average.

Technically, the duty is applied to the proportion of litres you have declared for propulsion, not to the price per litre. As an example:

100 litres at 85p = £85
duty on 60 litres at 49.15p = £29.49
Total cost of purchase = £114.49.
average cost per litre 114.49p.

 

[Stork_III]

A typical price per litre is 85p before duty. Some marinas will reduce this base price for higher quantities, eg 77p for over 1500 litres.

Duty is charged at 49.15p per litre as defined by HMRC. If no relief is claimed for non-propulsion use, this is applied to 100% of the fuel. You the purchaser has to declare the propulsion/non-propulsion split and the retailer has to apply it - they should NOT be telling you that it is 60/40, even though the Govt have indicated that this is a reasonable average.

Technically, the duty is applied to the proportion of litres you have declared for propulsion, not to the price per litre. As an example:

100 litres at 85p = £85
duty on 60 litres at 49.15p = £29.49
Total cost of purchase = £114.49.
average cost per litre 114.49p.

Have you forgotten VAT @ 5% on total?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Have you forgotten VAT @ 5% on total?

No, I assumed VAT is included in the fuel price, it is not applied to the duty as well.

 

[gravygraham]

Thanks folks, (reaches for calculator and strong coffee!).

 

[David2452]

No, I assumed VAT is included in the fuel price, it is not applied to the duty as well.

VAT is applied after addition of fuel duties, as it is on all duties (import etc) we are lucky it's still only 5%, a benefit of the EU being able to harmonise duties but has no say on member VAT rates.

 

[Momac]

The current rate of VAT is 20%. Thats what you pay on road diesel, petrol and diesel for the boat for propulsion. That why when VAT went up from 17.5 to 20% the cost of diesel and petrol went up with it.
Only on domestic heating fuel - oil/gas/electicity , VAT is 5%.

Anyway for marina diesel the pump price around here is set at the 60/40 split. Assuming 40% is for domestic use. Including duty and VAT it was £1.16 per litre last time I looked .
That's what you pay and if you dont like it you can take it up with the customs - not with the marina.

 

[mjf]

It was £1.10 to bert holders at Swanwick last w/e


As a matter of interest are MDL places all selling at same price to their berth holders or does it vary dependant on when last delv was made as MDL sell at their invoice cost whilst premier 'at cost' is exactly that - their cost that includes supply and staff and maintenance etc etc

 

[Stork_III]

The current rate of VAT is 20%. Thats what you pay on road diesel, petrol and diesel for the boat for propulsion. That why when VAT went up from 17.5 to 20% the cost of diesel and petrol went up with it.
Only on domestic heating fuel - oil/gas/electicity , VAT is 5%.

Anyway for marina diesel the pump price around here is set at the 60/40 split. Assuming 40% is for domestic use. Including duty and VAT it was £1.16 per litre last time I looked .
That's what you pay and if you dont like it you can take it up with the customs - not with the marina.

5% VAT on Marine diesel. If you pay 20% your supplier is a crook

 

[stuartwineberg]

Whatever you do - it will be depressing

Thanks folks, (reaches for calculator and strong coffee!).

I have played around with these numbers ever since I got into burning silly amounts of diesel and it all seems to be - very roughly - anything from about 35 foot to about 45 on shafts does about 1 to 1.25 mpg and the more modern sterndrive jobs do about 1.5 to about 1.75 and single engined jobs seem to get about 2 to 2.5. I know this is ridiculously approximate but for practical purposes seems to cover it. (Ducks as the 10 decimal place specialists reach for their keyboards)

 

[gravygraham]

(Ducks as the 10 decimal place specialists reach for their keyboards)

Lol!

 

[David2452]

5% VAT on Marine diesel. If you pay 20% your supplier is a crook

Indeed, it never ceases to surprise me that a lot of people I speak to genuinely think that it is 20% on the propulsion and 5% only on the power/heating element.

 

[Momac]

I apologise for my mistake regarding the VAT rate.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Anyway for marina diesel the pump price around here is set at the 60/40 split. Assuming 40% is for domestic use. Including duty and VAT it was £1.16 per litre last time I looked .
That's what you pay and if you dont like it you can take it up with the customs - not with the marina.

It is up to the buyer to declare his proportion AND TO BE ABLE TO JUSTIFY IT TO HMRC if required.

Any marina selling at 60/40 only is out of order - I would report them to Trading Standards as a starting point.

 

[Momac]

It is up to the buyer to declare his proportion AND TO BE ABLE TO JUSTIFY IT TO HMRC if required.

Any marina selling at 60/40 only is out of order - I would report them to Trading Standards as a starting point.

Are you a Customs Officer?

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Are you a Customs Officer?

As shown in my profile, my occupation is Marina Manager.

 

[Momac]

As shown in my profile, my occupation is Marina Manager.

Moody Marina Manager ............. perhaps !
I am just telling it as it is - H M Customs accepts the 60/40 split no questions asked.

So - do you have the pre-duty rate on your diesel pump?
They did that here at first but had so many hiss takers claiming 100% domestic it had to change.

 

[TrueBlue]

Moody Marina Manager ............. perhaps !
I am just telling it as it is - H M Customs accepts the 60/40 split no questions asked.

So - do you have the pre-duty rate on your diesel pump?
They did that here at first but had so many hiss takers claiming 100% domestic it had to change.

That's not the point, HMRC said at the outset 60/40 would be a reasonable figure.
However, the % declaration is made by you as that which you consider to be the appropriate rate.
IT is NOT for the dealer to pre-empt that figure.

Life being as it is HMRC or Trading Standards will not intervene - so it's up to the individual to name and shame or take action as he / she deem appropriate.

Another fine mess