Manouvering a Hilliard in a marina

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TallBuoy

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Ive got the dubious yet hopefully enjoyable task of helping an owner relocate their Hilliard tomorrow.

I foresee two major challenges.
1. Getting out of the marina berth she is in now
2. Putting her on her new mooring.

The 6 hours in the middle should be very straightforward!

I recall a certain Twister owner saying that the best way of going astern is to let the boat do whatever it wants and then make it look like you planned it that way.

Any other advice gratefully received !
 
I assume you are dealing with a long keeler's well known unpredictability when going astern?
We find that it is best not to use the engine until the boat is clear of the berth. I just push her astern fairly briskly and hop aboard as late as poss. Provided wind and tide are not too disobliging we can usually get the stern to go where we want, and then when suitably positioned, engage ahead and motor clear. If things do not go so well then at times 3 or more point turns are needed befoire we can escape!!

Picking up the mooring should be no different from any other relatively heavy displacement yacht I would think. No doubt you will get lots of other advice.
 
Could you use the services of someone in an inflatable used as a tug come bow thruster. Yarmouth HM guys used to be very good at doing that with their dorys Otherwise, employ some careful thought and the application of extra lines to hold or direct as required until pointing safely in the right direction.


If religious, offer prayer.;)
 
Presumably the owner will know how the boat behaves and which way the prop kicks. Use the quirks to your advantage and don't try to fight them. Don't be afraid to use warps to get the boat pointed where you want it.

Picking up a mooring is easy, just approach slowly as you'll have a lot of momentum carrying you forwards.
 
My extensive experience with recalcitrant heavy boats, which is restricted to watching from my boat or ashore, is that the successful skippers generally don't attempt to steer the boat when going astern but will put the helm full over in the preferred direction, and then steer the boat with alternate bursts of engine in each direction, with only the ahead bursts making much difference to the boat's direction of travel.
 
If the boat is in a tight marina berth it is quite likely that the marina staff will assist with a rib. I have also seen a long keeled boat pulled stern first out of its berth with a warp taken to the boat opposite. At the right moment the man on the boat opposite threw the warp onto the long keeler which was then able to motor forward and out. You have plenty of time to plan leaving, and obtaining approprite help from the marina rib or another yachtsman to handle a warp seems sensible.
 
Get well bumpered up and have crew with bumper to run around if needed to wedge between neighbours and as said short blasts f & a to see which way the old gal wants to go on the day - enjoy
 
Check how she responds to port/starboard tight turns, as in the final turn onto the mooring if a marina berth, they are unlikely to be the same! You really want the propwalk astern to help with that turn as you slow, similarly if you have to do a 180deg choose the correct direction first time. BTW expect to carry a lot of way. Could have had some practice on mine had I known, good excuse to get out :)
 
We had a long keeler and what I did is put one end of spring amidships then put the rope around the the closest cleat to the stern and back to the amidships cleat. Run the engine at 1000/1100 revs and wait until you see water flowing over the rudder, release one end of the spring from the cleat and pull all the rope onbord. The boat will go straight out. If you are backing in somewhere short bursts on the throttle will keep the boat going straight but not in strong winds or tide because your speed will be to low. If that is the case we set up a spring amidships came alongside and jumped on to the pontoon and put the spring on the cleat nearest the stern to stop the boat. Do not put the spring on a pontoon cleat near the bows the boat will swing out.
 
Propwalk ? - forget about it in anything other than zero wind / current.
If the Hilliard is anything like my little long keeler there is only one reliable way of predicting which way she will end up facing when backing out into a tight marina slot.
Toss a coin with " heads " representing the "right" way.
Accept that the outcome of your inquiry has at best a 50% chance of being correct.
Rig , at great palavar, a long slip spring on the basis that the coin toss will be wrong .
The evil spirits that actually control the swing of the boat will now consider their fun to be spoiled and move onto a more unsuspecting victim.
Back out of your berth and retrieve the unused spring as you calmly motor out of the trot.
Sorted!
 
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Homer Simpson's Lovechild said:
Propwalk ? - forget about it in anything other than zero wind / current.
If the Hilliard is anything like my little long keeler there is only one reliable way of predicting which way she will end up facing when backing out into a tight marina slot.
Toss a coin with " heads " representing the "right" way.
Accept that the outcome of your inquiry has at best a 50% chance of being correct.
Rig , at great palavar, a long slip spring on the basis that the coin toss will be wrong .
The evil spirits that actually control the swing of the boat will now consider their fun to be spoiled and move onto a more unsuspecting victim.
Back out of your berth and retrieve the unused spring as you calmly motor out of the trot.
Sorted!
Click to expand...

;);)

We were once berth neighbours swith a super Sovereign, 35ft, I think, ( think big Twister but ketch too) and he installed a bow thruster which worked well for him for one season. Next season the bow thruster motor failed about May ( overwork?) and he didn't go out again after that, Later he sold that boat and bought a twin engined 30ft mobo which he used almost daily, even singlehanded but by then he had been moved to a smaller berth slot.

I Have been lucky enough never to own a bloody minded boat and love that in mine we have been able to do whatever was required, forwards or backwards[/SMUG]
 
Tide will take the stern. Wind will take the bows. Whichever is strongest will win. If acting together you can predict. If opposing then it's anyone's guess. Either way, plenty of fenders takes the stress out of the situation (somtimes).

Is there enough room to warp her round?

As others have said, astern you struggle to control direction so short burst of ahead to gain direction help.

But also remember, you may not be able to get the bows round into the wind at the slow speeds that you have to deal with in a marina. Don't be surprised if any sharp turn into wind is unachievable.

Final throught is to remember that there are 100's of us with old boats that were not designed to handle marina layouts. I used to worry about asking for help, thinking that it was not "seaman like", but almost everybody appreciates the problems you have with that design in that sort of place and will be very helpful.
 
Two basic things need to be applied. Warping and outside assistance. I use warps a lot, and playing with geometries you can get out of most tight spaces in a controlled fashion. You might need someone ashore to help, or have a crew member stay ashore as you move out and collect them off a hammerhead on the way through. Ribs as tugs also work very well, as long as the driver knows what he he doing. I had one in Lisbon who seemed to thnk that flat out was always best. Generally keep movements slow and steady.
 
I rig a very long line from the stern quarter cleat to the cleat on the end of the finger, round it and back to the stern of the boat ( yes it needs to be twice the length of your boat plus a few metres. As you back out slowly crew or helpers keep her straight till the bow is clear, then snub the line and its like a handbrake turn, the boat will pivot round 90 degrees, slip and retrieve the line and off you go! Works well, even on my 13 ton long-keeler.
 
Sorry for the delay in thanking you for all your comments. The delivery was completed yesterday with utmost success.

I found the boat remarkably manoeuvrable and shouldn't have been worrying about it all along!

With the canoe stern, it was easy enough to spring off an alongside berth, and also turned surprisingly easy amongst trots where she is now moored.

A lovely solid boat too, it was almost flat calm but the very deep centre cockpit felt very snug. Looking forward to helping the owner get sailing properly.
 
Well done!

Actually, given enough space, and a good breeze, you can be completely certain about which way a long keeler will go in astern. She will always end up, once she has gathered way, by sticking her stern into the wind, because the hull feathers downwind from the prop, which acts as a sort of sea anchor. But you will need half the river to get to this point.
 
Minn said:
Well done!

Actually, given enough space, and a good breeze, you can be completely certain about which way a long keeler will go in astern. She will always end up, once she has gathered way, by sticking her stern into the wind, because the hull feathers downwind from the prop, which acts as a sort of sea anchor. But you will need half the river to get to this point.
Click to expand...
Perfectly true................but not a lot of help in getting out of a marina berth ;) :D
 
Nikia said:
Perfectly true................but not a lot of help in getting out of a marina berth ;) :D
Click to expand...
The long keeler I owned for many years was completely predictable astern: she would ALWAYS swing her stern quite hard to port. If that worked for leaving a berth then fine, if you had to go the other way it was either a "handbrake turn" with a warp, or a five-point turn.

Switching to a modern fin-keeler I actually sometimes found tight berths more difficult, at least a heavy long-keeler more or less stayed where she was in the water rather than having the bows blow off sideways as soon as speed drops.
 
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