Making a curved panel out of fibre glass.

[Thepipdoc]

I'm currently having my saloon upholstery refitted but the upholsterer contacted me today to say that he has got all of the panels off the boat that are being recovered apart from the one that sits alongside the helm seat. (See the picture).
It's not screwed or bolted from the underside, it's apparently glued and its solid!
So solid he's afraid he might break something if he uses any more force than he has already.
He says there's no way he can do a proper job unless he has the panel removed.
Now, given that it's not moveable I'm considering making a replica out of fibreglass and fixing the replacement on top of the existing one. The upholsterer can recover it as long as it's a rigid.
I would of course remove the fabric and the foam padding prior to starting to make the fibre glass replacement but given that I've never worked with fibre glass before is there anything I should be aware of before starting?
One thing I'm unsure of is how do I "stick" fibreglass to the existing panel and yet be able to remove it when it's hardened?

(The picture I've attached is a one I picked off Google and not a picture of my own boat but I'm hoping you can see that the panel needs that needs to be recovered. I'm nowhere near my own boat otherwise I would have taken a more detailed picture)

 

[Spyro]

I'm currently having my saloon upholstery refitted but the upholsterer contacted me today to say that he has got all of the panels off the boat that are being recovered apart from the one that sits alongside the helm seat. (See the picture).
It's not screwed or bolted from the underside, it's apparently glued and its solid!
So solid he's afraid he might break something if he uses any more force than he has already.
He says there's no way he can do a proper job unless he has the panel removed.
Now, given that it's not moveable I'm considering making a replica out of fibreglass and fixing the replacement on top of the existing one. The upholsterer can recover it as long as it's a rigid.
I would of course remove the fabric and the foam padding prior to starting to make the fibre glass replacement but given that I've never worked with fibre glass before is there anything I should be aware of before starting?
One thing I'm unsure of is how do I "stick" fibreglass to the existing panel and yet be able to remove it when it's hardened?

(The picture I've attached is a one I picked off Google and not a picture of my own boat but I'm hoping you can see that the panel needs that needs to be recovered. I'm nowhere near my own boat otherwise I would have taken a more detailed picture)

mold release wax

 

[Jcorstorphine]

Are you sure you want to do this.

Working with fibreglass is messy, smelly and horrible and looking at the pic of your boat you will need to cover everything with polythene to protect it from drips..

I notice that you have said that you will remove all the old fabric and foam. Problem is that you wont and you will be left with furry bits. A fibreglass mould is as smooth as glass as it has to provide the required surface to produce perfect mouldings. As Spyro has said “mould release wax” but this is applied to perfect surfaces.

What you could try is to mask the area with polythene using double sided tape but this has to be done very carefully so the polythene will not move.

Once that is done, very carefully roll the polythene surface with mixed resin and harder. Now place the fibreglass mat over the wet resin and stipple down with more resin. You now need to consolidate the resin into the mat so you used another type of roller with lots of washers. Repeat exercise one or two more times.

Point to watch out for.

Make sure you mix the resin and hardener 100% or you will have uncured resin which will stink for ages.

Have lots of Acetone to clean up with.

Lots of black rubber gloves

A solvent mask with carbon filter

If it were me, I would get a professional laminator to do the work.

 

[Amulet]

If I were you I'd buy your stuff here.
I assume that, if it is to be upholstered over it doesn't need a perfect finish, so you can cut corners.

(I'm assuming you use polyester - you could use epoxy)

1. remove all crud etc from surface, using solvents if necessary
2. fill all holes with an epoxy filler
3. sand perfectly smooth down to 1000 grit wet and dry (or slightly imperfect if you don't care so much about finish
4. polish to a high shine with mould wax available from above.
5. coat with "release agent" also available from above
6. catalyse a dose of white gelcoat (if you want a different colour buy plain gel coat plus pigment) apply it by brush or roller. (when you make the reverse - the actual panel you may need a second gelcoat to get complete colouring - the books say you don't - I do. If so apply it when the first coat is solid but not set completely.)
7. Cut cloth or chopped strand mat to the required shape (should have done this first) catalyse resin and stipple down with a catalysed dose of resin using a brush then roll out using a roller.
8. After that lot has begun to go off apply a second layer of cloth or CSM in the same way, and then maybe even a third.
9. When the whole lot is about the consistency of orange peel trim the edges with a Stanley knife or the like.
10. Now stick on some lumps of wood in a haphazard but effective frame on the back using glass fibre tape or CSM to hold it in place with more resin. Purpose: you have to make it rigid so that it doesn't flex out of shape when you take if off the original.
11. Wait for the whole lot to set completely and then pop it off - easier said than done - you can use wooden wedges and pour hot water into the gap if necessary.
12. Repeat the whole process to make your actual panel, having cleaned off all the release agent, polished and reapplied agent.

You can call the Geordies at North East Fibreglass to talk you through it and correct all my errors. They're really helpful.

It's a fartabout but rather satisfying

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Firstly, where are you or your boat.
Secondly you obviousley havent heard of me!
Forget the toxic vapour mask, you wont need it for a small job like that.
You will need lots of polyethene to cover all surrounding areas and anything you dont want to get resin on, inc carpets supholstry etc.
Mask off the working area with tape and polyethene and take the latter out at the bottom to form a tray on which to catch any excess resin.
Wax the surface which you intend glassing on, you dont need a release wax, use a soft wax, ie Simonize or a boat/car wax, apply aprox 6-7 coats polishing off each coat before applying the next and polishing off the last.
You would be better taking a mould from the original pannel and then taking a finnished pannel from the mould.
You would need to gel the pannel first if you are making a mould otherwise the csm would press through the resin and show on the finnished surface.
2% catylist is ample to mix resin, 10% for gel-coat, and yes do stir well or you get a hot spot forming in the mixing container (a 2ltr milk carton with top cut off is ideal)
Dont hold container in hand while working or hand heat will set it off and it will be wasted.
Once you start applying gel or resin get it out all over surface as quick as possible so there is no local heat build up.
To speed wet out time and aid getting cloth to take required shape you could use a peice of melamine or gloss surfaced hardboard etc on a bench and pour resin on it spread it and soak out the mat/csm on it before offering the soaked csm to the work surface, stipple or use a 4" mini roller to wet out every strand of csm, lay all required layers before rolling with a ribbed consolidating roller.
You wont need to stager joints if you cut each peice of cloth big enough for the whole area with a little extra around the edges so that you have a reasonably constant thickness when you trim off the excess.
Easier to work with 450grm mat/csm.
Some close up pics of the actual job would be helpful.
Good luck.
I will be thinking of you while I am rolling on my 10th gallon of gel or resin on a big (8ft x 5ft ) mould tomorrow and wishing I was laying up small jobs!
C_W

Ps if you find either the mixed resin or gel getting very hot in the container remover the lot to somewhere outside and safe or cool it with water.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

If I were you I'd buy your stuff here.
I assume that, if it is to be upholstered over it doesn't need a perfect finish, so you can cut corners.

(I'm assuming you use polyester - you could use epoxy)

1. remove all crud etc from surface, using solvents if necessary
2. fill all holes with an epoxy filler
3. sand perfectly smooth down to 1000 grit wet and dry (or slightly imperfect if you don't care so much about finish
4. polish to a high shine with mould wax available from above.
5. coat with "release agent" also available from above
6. catalyse a dose of white gelcoat (if you want a different colour buy plain gel coat plus pigment) apply it by brush or roller. (when you make the reverse - the actual panel you may need a second gelcoat to get complete colouring - the books say you don't - I do. If so apply it when the first coat is solid but not set completely.)
7. Cut cloth or chopped strand mat to the required shape (should have done this first) catalyse resin and stipple down with a catalysed dose of resin using a brush then roll out using a roller.
8. After that lot has begun to go off apply a second layer of cloth or CSM in the same way, and then maybe even a third.
9. When the whole lot is about the consistency of orange peel trim the edges with a Stanley knife or the like.
10. Now stick on some lumps of wood in a haphazard but effective frame on the back using glass fibre tape or CSM to hold it in place with more resin. Purpose: you have to make it rigid so that it doesn't flex out of shape when you take if off the original.
11. Wait for the whole lot to set completely and then pop it off - easier said than done - you can use wooden wedges and pour hot water into the gap if necessary.
12. Repeat the whole process to make your actual panel, having cleaned off all the release agent, polished and reapplied agent.

You can call the Geordies at North East Fibreglass to talk you through it and correct all my errors. They're really helpful.

It's a fartabout but rather satisfying

I think you are over the top by suggesting filling all holes, using epoxy, fine sanding.
the pannel is going to be upholstered over.
C_W

 

[Amulet]

Actually, on balance, despite my above enthusiasm, I'd try to avoid the whole malarky. It's a messy business no matter how you or anyone else goes about it. I'd consider trying to cut round the edges where the panel is hard to get off and then cleaning up and creating some kind of trim to reattach it with screws, bolts or the like. If it aids the process you can cut a bloody great hole behind part that will be upholstered over so that you can look inside and see how it is all attached, 'cos you can always bodge a plywood patch that no-one will see behind the upholstery.

I have an in-principle objection to cavities in a boat that you can't see into in any case.

The other approach would be to challenge your upholsterer - I think he ought to be able to do it in situ. It would be easier to make a hardboard and plaster mockup for him to work on than replace the panel I fear.

(I now realise that my previous post was unnecessarily complicated because you are willing to have the female you make be the basis for the upholstery rather than making a new panel shiny on the outside.)

 

[oldsaltoz]

I assume this item is a simple curved panel the was originally moulded, then fixed to the hull with more fibreglass.

If this is the case then the best method may be make a template of closed cell foam and glass over it, then spray with flow coat.

This has the advantage that all the glassing is done off the boat thus avoiding any risk of spills or drips and the need for all the protective sheeting.

This method will produce a panel that is both light and strong.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[Thepipdoc]

Thanks all.
The method's you've each described has sort of sunk home.
I'll know more tomorrow when I get on the boat myself and see for sure that the panel is stuck solid. The upholsterer is adamant it won't budge.
If it won't, I don't have much choice other than making a start at producing a rigid panel that is capable of being covered with foam pads and leather.
I've heeded your warnings over keeping the place covered with polythene and will let you know what the outcome is!

(judging by the responses from our Scottish friends most of the glass fibre workers are based north of the border!)

 

[Thepipdoc]

I assume this item is a simple curved panel the was originally moulded, then fixed to the hull with more fibreglass.

If this is the case then the best method may be make a template of closed cell foam and glass over it, then spray with flow coat.

This has the advantage that all the glassing is done off the boat thus avoiding any risk of spills or drips and the need for all the protective sheeting.

This method will produce a panel that is both light and strong.

Good luck and fair winds.

Sorry but can I ask what is "closed cell foam"?
Is it the sort of thing you get in a can, like expanding foam? is it the spray on stuff?

 

[oldsaltoz]

Sorry but can I ask what is "closed cell foam"?
Is it the sort of thing you get in a can, like expanding foam? is it the spray on stuff?

Closed sell foam is used in many ways including hull and decks on boats.

The reference to 'closed cell' means that unlike most foam materials closed cell foam will not absorb water or moisture.

The problem with standard foam structures is that water can enter via the smallest pin hole and cause the foan to take up moisture and fails when it dissolves or falls apart.

It's very easy to cut and shape then class over, the rigid foam between the outer layers of glass make a strong and light structure.

I recently built a cockpit cover for a 40+ foot catamaran almost 20 feet across and 12 feet from front to back, all wiring and stainless steel support structure hidden inside and it even has a water collection system for rain water.

When installed 4 adults walked around on top. The foam also provided excellent insulation for heat and the noise produced in heavy rain.

You van build many things with this material ranging from tanks for water, fuel and holding tanks as well as anchor winch covers, ice boxes, instrument housings and the list goes on.

Good luck and fair winds.

 

[Thepipdoc]

Thanks all for you help with this.
Whilst I didn't make a new panel I did repair the severly damaged panel that I removed. It was a nightmare getting it off - took about 2 hours and I ended up with 5 pieces on the saloon floor.
Using the advice here I was able to tackle the repair and I was abelt o hand the panel over to the upholsterer today.
I'll post some pics of the finished job sometime next week.

 

[Chris1986]

I am currently re upolstering what looks to be the same boat (sealine stateman 33) in southampton. i removed that panal in question with difficulty myself, but eventually got it off. Applying even leverage along the bottom side with 3 plain screwdrivers. I would advise removing the helm seat out of the way first.