Mainsail Traveller

[Miker]

My boat, a First 260, has its mainsail sheet leading to blocks on the floor 2/3rds along the cockpit. I am thinking of fitting a mainsail traveller as when sheeting in, the best that I can get the boom is about 15 degrees from parallel with the centre of the boat. The problem will be that the traveller will have to be put across the cockpit just in front of the helm who is likely to bark his shins on it if not careful.
What I am wondering is what sort of advantage I will gain from the inconvenience. I do not race but at times it would have been helpful to have been able to sail closer to the wind.

 

[Twister_Ken]

The traveller is very useful, even if you're not racing. When she begins to overpower going upwind, first thing to do is to let the main slide down a bit. Only when you've run out of traveller movement do you need to start worrying about dumping main sheet. Also helps to get the sail full and drawing on a tight reach, with the traveller dumped but quite a lot of sheet tension.

If your shin-barking position is too much of a problem consider whether you could rig the traveller just aft of the companion. This keeps the cockpit clear, but still gives a better mechancal advantage compared with the modern practice of putting in front of the hatch garage, Also, in a small boat, the helm can generally reach the main in the companion position.

Is it a First 260 Spirit? Played in one of those once and she's a sprightly bit of kit!

 

[claymore]

Ken has this right - go and have a look at my old Delta in the creek. She used to have a traveller right across the centre of the cockpit and my shins still bear the marks 6 years on. The next owner put it by the companionway which cleared the cockpit and I think improves the sail control as it is more central (along the boom)
regards
John S

 

[kingfisher]

Increase your safety and comfort

You should install a traveller. It reduces heel and improves the sailshape. The car goes to the leeward side, and, when winding up, you sheet in untill the sheet is fully thightend, then you use the traveler instead of the sheet.

In light airs, the traveller can even be pulled over the centre of the boat.

Installing it across the cockpit is not the best option.

Across the companionway needs a reinforced roof, and the sheet will be too far for the helmsman

Behind the helm works best.

Harken has a nifty piece of software to calculate the loads. www;harken.com

Obi-Wan

 

[Guest]

To test and see whether the boat improves with adding sheet control across the boat ..... try this first BEFORE drilling / screwing / fixing bits of kit !!!!

Take two blocks and lengths of line. Rig two 'jury' lines from the cockpit sides to the boom attachment point for the sheets. Now you can sheet in normally and then pull the boom further by the 'side' jury sheet .... taken to a winch if necessary- reason for the block.

If the boom being hardened over makes for better sailing etc. then you know your idea is good !

What you can then do is rig proper sheets either side of the cockpit, removing the need for a traveler and 'barking shins' and 'trapped little fingers' from travellers across companionways / cockpits ..... It worked for hundreds of years and will continue to work for many more !!! Its also easier to fit than a traveller and all that 'gubbins' !!

If you still are going for a traveller ..... see about fitting it behind the helm ..... across the transom bridge of the cockpit, or fit a sheet horse - stainless steel frame like a wide inverted flat U - with lanyards to control sheet position. This then allows the tiller to be free of intererence as it moves inside the inverted flat U, and also simplifies the fitting of the system.

Good luck.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by nigel_luther on Fri Dec 21 10:37:06 2001 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Miker]

Thanks everyone.

Yes it is a 260 Spirit and I have to reef early but sometimes forget that sound advice.
I think that on top the coach roof is out. It is double skinned and to have the sheet in the middle of the boom would mean the traveller across the companion way. I would rather bark my shins than scalp myself - there is precious little hair left without that!
I was wondering about on the stern or just in front and raised so as not to foul the tiller. My only concern is whether the angle of the mainsheet to the traveller would cause any problems.
If it is practicable, on the stern sounds favourite. Just in front of the companionway would mean leaving the washboard permanently in place. Otherwise one day someone will trip on it and go headlong into the cabin.

 

[roger]

I too like the idea of the traveller behind the tiller. However do check your mainsheet angle. If its oblique a gybe will take your head off.
We put in a longer boom to avoid this problem

 

[Miker]

I take your point about losing my head

A traveller on the stern would probably be dangerous in an involuntary gybe, given the angle of the sheet across the throat.
I will have to see whether a raised traveller in a safe position across the cockpit near the stern will render too much of the cockpit unusable.
Nothing is simple in this life!

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: I take your point about losing my head

Mike,
Have a look at Westerly Konsorts and Fulmars. Most (but not all) have the traveller across the stern - over the tiller. One such Fulmar I have seen have moved the traveller across the middle of the cockpit - a real shin barker!! And it also reduces the socialising area, or at least makes it less comfortable.

My Konsort has the traveller across the stern, and have had an involuntary gybe - yes, you do have to duck very quickly! but is out of the way of the cockpit.

regards,
Philip

 

[Guest]

Re: I take your point about losing my head

I am lucky enough to own 3 boats ...... one has the traveller at the halfway point in the cockpit and its a pain .... divides the cockpit and boy does it hurt when you catch your shin !!!! Second it has the same problem of catching fingers etc. BUT it does a fantastic job of sheeting angle etc. - particularly as its a racing boat. Second and third have the raised sheet horse over the tiller at stern. One was converted from a single fixing point on the transom and that was useless till fitting the horse .... now its great. The other already had the horse and has extra controls to heave the bottom block around etc.
Yes you have to watch the gybes etc., but most boats up to about 26ft have low booms anyway, so if you don't keep your eyes on the job, you'll take a head shot anyway !!

 

[Miker]

Stern mounting seems favourite

I visited the boat this afternoon and sat in the cockpit. Any traveller in the stern will have to be raised at least one foot above the deck with the sheets going up to 40 degrees from the vertical to the boom. Is this likely to be a problem? Incidently, what is a sea horse?

 

[Guest]

Re: Stern mounting seems favourite

I had a similar problem no my Nova. In so much as the main sheet cut the cotpit in half As the traveller was mounted out side the companionway To the end of the boom. I moved the traveller to the transom and it works fine. A wire strop under the block reduces the amount of sheeting and the purchase is about the same as before.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Gents, our lad has a First 260, which is close to being an open transom boat with a relatively short boom. I can't think quite how you'd make a sheet horse work on a boat like this unless it was engineered in as the top pushpit rail (usually, just a wire runs across the back), and even then you'd have a very shallow angle from the traveller to the boom - effectively sheet tension would be trying to pull the gooseneck out of the mast, rather than tensioning the leech. Also, it's a lifting keel baot with twin lifting rudders so you need access at the transom to get at them. Awkward.

Some of the ETAPs have a demountable traveller which runs across the middle of the cockpit but can be removed when at rest - that might be one solution. Or take the opportunity of the boat show to talk to companies like Barton and Lewmar for suggestions. Also, try the Bennie owners website.

 

[Miker]

You\'ve summed up the problem nicely.

The boom which is 5 feet from the deck ends at least 2 feet short of the transom which is not strong enough to take a traveller. I, too, was concerned about the angle of the mainsheet to the traveller. The position for the traveller adopted by Beneteau is across the cockpit just short of the end of the boom in a position to break shins. It is placed just below seating level - the traveller bridges the cockpit area but does not extend across the seating area.
It might be that I will have to go with that. I don't fancy having it just in front of the companionway.

 

[philip_stevens]

Re: You\'ve summed up the problem nicely.

If it is just below seating level now, couldn't you lower it to floor level - thus eliminating shin damage......only toe damage!!

Seriously though, what about lowering it to cockpit floor level? and fitting hardwood rubbing strips along the edge of the seats and cockpit edge to stop chafing by the sheet.

regards,
Philip<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by philip_stevens on Sun Dec 23 15:23:56 2001 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Miker]

Re: You\'ve summed up the problem nicely.

I have been advised that a traveller on the deck on the deck is not recommended. Apparently the greater down pull on the leach as compared with the sideways pull would make it more difficult to get the sail parallel to the boat when close hauled and would not maintain the optimum shape of the sail.
Thumbing through back numbers of the PBO I see that some boats have the mainsheet at other than a rightangle from the boom. What I need to know is what is the critical angle and see where that would position the traveller. As suggested a trip to the Boat Show might be helpful, if the train fares have not gone up too much.

 

[Guest]

Re: Stern mounting seems favourite

A SHEET HORSE is a stainless steel 'rail' bent in a long lower case n shape. The top normally about 2 foot long and then the vertical leg at each end having stops and threaded ends. The transom is drilled to take the legs and nuts / washers tightened up from underneath the transom.
A trip down to a boat-yard and a look at various back-ends of boats will surely find one fitted so !

If you have the later 'open-ended' type of transom.... this works fine, as the SHEET-HORSE can bridge this at any height you want ....... the size of steel rod used is about 1/2" .... and forge-bent - NOT welded except for the stop plates at end of threads to stop the legs going too far into the transom !
Make sure that stainless steel washers are welded as 'stops' along the top rail, just in from the bends to stop the sheet block from slipping 'down' the vertical legs.

E-mail me direct and I'll drop a sketch to you if you need ..... the actual dimensions can be to suit your boat etc. and mine would only be an indication.....

ncl@naviatech.ee

 

[Avocet]

Re: Stern mounting seems favourite

I had a traveler right across my cockpit. It bashed shins, cut the cockpit in half and, worst of all, stopped me from lying down full-length on one or other side of the cockpit. It also seriously cramped our three year old's play area. I thought of moving it to the companionway but didn't want said three year old decapitated. Also, we had an old roller-reefing boom at the time so the mainsheet had to be at the back of the boom.

I got rid of the whole thing and reinforced the cockpit sides between the sole and the inboard edge of the seats on each side. I then took the mainsheet to a ring bolt on each side via a short stainless strop and a shackle. This isn't making much sense is it? Looking from abaft (is that a real word?!) where the old traveller used to be , there are two ring bolts poking out from the side of the vertical part of the cocpit well, both facing each other across the boat. From each of these, a stainless strop about 18" long rises upwards and inwards to meet in the centre of the boat about 2' above the sole. Where they meet, the bottom of the mainsheet is attached.

As each strop and ring bolt is strong enough (I hope) to hold the mainsheet by itself, I have three possible positions - in the middle, from the port ring bolt or from the starboard one. This isn't quite as versatile as the traveller but saves shins, enables me to lie down, still depowers the rig when it's windy and can be moved to one side when in port to allow the young 'un a clear run down the cocpit.

Rspond to this if you're interested and I'll do you a sketch. We're lucky in that the shape of our boat lends itself to this arrangement. I suppose I could replace eac hstainless strop wit ha short tackle so that I didn't have to disconnect one of the strops under load and, more importantly, would always have a fail-safe if one side failed. I could just harden one and slacken the other.

 

[PeterGibbs]

If you are getting to within 15 degrees of the centre line, you are, as you suggest, almost there. The practical difference of closing this gap, allowing for the fact that all boats are slilghtly different in this respect, would be negligable. If you have good reason to think this IS not the case, go for the changed main anchorage. But the risk to the helm is not something I would appreciate, nor might the succeeding owner of your boat.

There is another way for the odd occasion, and that is to construct a simple main hauler from a combing winch to a fixing point on the boom and haul it in; preferable to wearing shin pads when on the wheel!

PWG