main halyard 2:1 purchase system ?

grafozz

grafozz

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my arms are failing me ! big heavy f/b main needs help ! what is the best way to introduce 2: gearing ? without losing my overall lift height ? the boom is low enough already . could i use a footblock attached to the alloy headboard ? any ideas ,please ?
 
Anything you attach to the headboard will lower the hoist by the length of the block, won't it?

Can't you winch the main halyard up, somehow? Failing that, if you have a crew then 'sweat' the main at the mast whilst hauling in on the halyard tail. That way the weight/friction is shared and the task is much lighter.
 
It is not IMO a practical solution but:

Put a single block on the head board.

Fix the end of the halyard (which will now have to be longer by an amount equal to the height of the mast) at the mast head, take it down around the block, back up, over the normal sheave and down to the winch.

It'll do what you ask but I doubt if anyone will be happy with the end of the halyard at the mast head. You will also have twice as much rope to coil away when the sail is hoisted.

Instead of fixing the halyard at the masthead it could be taken over another block or spare sheave and down to a cleat at the foot of the mast.

ALTERNATIVELY (but not if the halyard is inside the mast )

Fit a new short halyard so that when the sail is lowered it only just goes over the sheaves. Attach a single block to it. Secure the normal halyard at the foot of the mast, take it up over the block and back down to the winch.

The length of the new bit of halyard between peak of sail and block will have to be carefully thought out. Again you will end up with twice as much string to coil away.

I am not expecting anyone to like either of these suggestions! Criticism unnecessary!

THIRD OPTION

Longer winch handle!
 
I agree that you should not be having that much of a problem. I would be looking at the top sheeve first and then the sliders. try how easy it is to move the halyard around the sheeve without the sail (i.e. hold both ends of the halyard and pull down on one end, then the other.

I recently was in a charter yacht where the main sheeve had broken and was jamming the halyard. As a temporary fix we replaced the topping lift with an appropriate sized rope to use as the halyard, and used the semi jammed rope as a topping lift. - good enough til the end of the season as work on the sheaves means that the mast has to be down.

if it is the sliders, get out the fairy liquid and anoint the sliders, once that has freed the dirt, use a very small amount of silicon grease on them. be careful as the silicon will stain the sail if you use too much.
 
Reduce the friction first

At the start of the season I had to winch my main sail up (33' boat and FB main), plastic sliders and Harken batten cars.
As a result I then sprayed the plasic sliders with silicon spray, (I have used furniture spray before wit the same results).
I can now haul the whole sail up by hand.
I suggest before you invest in doubling your halyard and adding expensive winches you look at reducing the friction in the system - sheaves, and slides.
Sometimes the simple solution is the best !
Good luck
 
Re: Reduce the friction first

Hi,
Agree with above.
try also to remove any unnecessary friction, e.g. is the halyard a bit big for blocks?
If the halyard exits side of mast 7 ft up (racing boat style), a big cam or clam cleat can be used to hoist the bulk of the sail from here, against only the friction of the top sheeve. Then top up with a winch.
Winching the whole thing up is just hard work imho.
A 2:1 can be a good idea, allows thinner rope or less stretch, it's quite common on dinghies now.
Hope that helps?
 
Vic S's suggestion of a block at the peak and the halyard fixed at the mast does work, as we have that system on our boat.
But as he says it's a pain in some ways, and will probably mean you can't haul the peak as high.

I agree with other posters that there may be a friction problem. I can winch our sail up which is a heavy main of 720sq. ft. and I would assume yours is smaller.

However if you continue to have problems, maybe consider one of those electric drill winchers which have popped up on this forum from time to time.
 
thanks everyone, your opinions are enlightening .. , the main is f/batt 9 oz cloth and its a catamaran so fairly robustly built . now a point - when hoisted the halyard is about c flat ! its bar - pingning -tight ! i have today removed all the rutgerson battcars and cleaned and checked all fittings and systems , all appear ok but its still like hauling miss piggy up the mast ! i can only manually pull it past first set of spreaders ,of two sets , whereas years ago i could pull it right to the masthead then winch for a tight luff . ok i ,m a bit older now .. but still 6' 4"" theres definately something fighting me in the system , which is where i came in with the 2 :1 purchase idea . i did not get the square area from the sailmaker but its a big roached 12metre x 4 metre sail , what would that equate to in area ? also i fitted new sheaves to the masthead this year when the mast was down , new halyards too . all lines are led back to the cockpit too via mast footblocks , organisers and dedicated clutches . help !
 
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its a big roached 12metre x 4 metre sail !

[/ QUOTE ]


What about a gas or spring boom vang strut to hold the sail up a bit while you hoist. The heavy roached sail with full battens may be adding too much friction.
 
Many racing yachts have the halyard exit the mast about 7or 8 ft above the deck. This is an ideal height for a man to reach up to grab the halyard and use his body weight to pull the halyard down so sail up. It averts the friction of the bottom turning block etc. On spinacker halyards they have a clutch just under the exit so the halyard can be jambed when up. You then pull all the halyard through to the deck clutch take up the load on the winch and finally open the mast clutch so all dropping can be done from the cockpit.
On a Farr 40 with fractional rig big mains sail this is quite reasonably the way to raise the mainsail by one man. (Probably younger than us)
You should try at least to raise the sail from the mast base so removing friction of bottom blocks in case that is where the friction is.
try also disconnecting the halyard from the sail and tie a rope onto it and try pulling the halyard up with no sail. This should be really easy.

Finally on a small 20 fter I was involved with which had a wire halyard and external halyards. There was an eye and thimble on the end of the wire and a rope tied to the wire. it was easy to fit a small block to the end of the wire. The rope went through the block and had loop tied in the end. The loop wouldn't go through the block so it was just 1 to 1 but when the wire end was in reach we could pull the loop down and hook it on a cleat so the rope became a 2 purchase for final tightening. An elegant solution to no winch.

But yes I reckon you have a friction problem somewhere. good luck olewill
 
I have a similar problem - 40 ft cat, FB main. (I'm also the same size as you!). I started off with a twin halliard arrangement but found it too hard to hoist so have substituted a single double-ended halliard of smaller diameter with a block attached to the head of the sail. It makes life easier but there is still a lot of friction so I have to use the winch from half hoist. I think the biggest culprit is the point where the halliard exits the mast. I have never been able to find an exit fitting with sheaves so I'm stuck with the rope doing an S-bend through a solid fitting.
 
Traditionally rigged boats invariably have a system of halyards and 'purchases'. The halyard is double ended as described, but one end attaches to the top of a purchase that may be 4:1. You hoist the sail with the halyard as far as you can, then make it off and move to the purchase for the final bit. It becomes a bit of a macho thing to see how little of the purchase your team needs to use! It works very well and is quicker and smoother than using a winch but involves a lot of string.
 
If you could raise this main before, but can't now there can be only two reasons. Either you are using less power or there is more friction. Assuming you are not much more enfeebled than you really think (!) then there must be more friction than there used to be.

Have you tested what the friction levels are without the sail on? Try attaching a line to the halyard, looping round the boom or something to give it a little friction and just running that through the system. Maybe your new halyard is oversized or the sheaves undersized - though it seems unlikely. Maybe when the new halyard was run it fouled something in the mast which is causing friction? Maybe the clutch (if you have one) is damaged?

As to the size of the sail, if it's 12x4 metres then that would make 48sq. metres as a rectangle. Halve that for the diagonal and add say 10% for roach, times 10.76 for sq. ft and I get 284sq. ft. That should really not be hard for a person of average strength to pull up entirely by hand in my view. I really think you should look at what is causing the friction rather than putting more welly into it.

Problems with the track higher up, or with the cars when under load may be other items to examine.
 
thanks jeremy yes have tried the halyard with nothing on it and totally free , a good point about internal snagging but i did sight the lines very carefully when new sheaves were fitted at mast drop last winter i also have a 100mm airblock at the mast base instead of the original 60mm z spars pin block , this sail should go up on its own ! regards area/ weight the roach is large about 30% , and with 2 rows of slab reefing plus 5 x v stiff battens cars and ends its heavier than it may seem . it is a bit easier just pulling at the mast sheave outlet , but not a great deal , i am looking at replacing the rutgerson batten cars as imo they are a poor match to the mast profile they may be kicking sideways under load . of course this would not cause much friction upon hoisting ,but may be contributory . another point ,here is that unless the boat is bang into wind , it wont drop either ! regards all
 
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