Macerator cherry stone menace.

[Rohorn]

Hi....it's been a sh***y few days (going through the motions as it were) sorting out a blocked full holding tank, caused by cherry stones lodged in the impeller of a Johnson Pump macerator. Disconnected the pump from the tank outlet pipe by holding the lot above the level of the tank. Then inserted a 1.5 inch stop valve to seal it off while inspecting the pump.(that's now in the line permanently)
Realising that the impeller size itself made the Johnson unit vulnerable, I bought a Jabsco version which has a slightly different impeller, and apparently able to cope. Fitted this, and pumped the tank out, hoped the problem was solved.
Would you believe it, next trip, tank full to bursting, the new unit also failed with cherry stones this time blocking the cutter blades, not the impeller.
Happy to have an isolating valve, I drained the tank with the cleaned out macerator, then connected a powerful wet and dry vac on the pump line while flushing through, and reaped a veritable harvest of cherry stones, plus much more fecal matter which the macerators don't seem to shift from the bottom of the tank.
The tank is about two foot square by one foot high, and inclined slightly toward the outlet stub, within the limited space available. The source of the cherry stones, as people are sure to ask, was a mentally handicapped person who cannot manage to spit them out.
My questions are:-
1) Is there an effective way to trap cherry stones before they get to the macerator? Some float and some don't (!)
2) is there another pump on the market that doesn't block?.
3) What technique can one use to make sure the tank empties completely?
4) How do you get rid of the after smell even when you've showered off, cleaned your teeth and changed your clothes?
5) Anyone want a slightly used wet and dry vac?
Cheers.....R


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[snowleopard]

i have 2 foolproof methods of avoiding your problem-

a) tell the crew not to swallow their stones /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

b) use a manual pump. i have 2x200 litre holding tanks which i empty using a whale gusher titan bilge pump. it takes 200 strokes to empty a full tank which takes about 10 minutes. if done daily it takes a minute or two each morning. the pumps also serve the bilges via a changeover valve.

i'm assuming you're talking about discharging at sea.

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[Talbot]

But if you plan to cuise the Queensland coast, you need to have a macerator to be able to empty the holding tank at sea!

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[tcm]

Re: banned foods

yep, banning cherry stones is #1 option. Or just don't buy any cherries. Also olive stones. Also, for separate reason (makes the teak go greasy) ban crisps on board as well.

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[paulburton44]

Re: banned foods

why crisps ??????????????

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[Rohorn]

Hi, yes, it's discharge at sea. There's no real facility anywhere in the Aegean that I know of.
I'm beginning to think, having seen the 1000 watt wet and dry vac so effectively cleaning out the tank in a few seconds, with no risk of blockage, and seeing that I now have in current use 220v 1.5 kilowatt inverter power available on the boat, why not make up something permanently installed to do the job. I suppose thats the way shore discharge systems work. Easy enough to suck out the stuff into the vac. Just gotta dream up a way to get it overboard.
This is bound to happen again...she could have been eating cherries for days before coming aboard.....so I'll think hard about this.
I wondered if Headmistress has any comments? Is she around do you know?
Cheers....R

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[snowleopard]

need a macerator in queensland? why- is it one of those laws?

just sloshing around in the tank does the job pretty effectively!

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[Talbot]

Definitely one of those laws, and it goes further than that:

Vessel-sourced sewage legislative requirements commenced on 1 January 2004 to help minimise the likelihood of impacts from sewage generated onboard vessels.

The sewage management requirements are detailed in the Transport Operations (Marine Pollution) Act 1995 and Transport Operations (Marine Pollution) Regulation 1995 (Regulation).

These requirements will affect all vessels which have a toilet fitted and can discharge sewage.

The first phase will apply to identified nil-discharge waters. These areas are marinas, boat harbours, canals and the Noosa River system and designated areas of state marine parks. From 1 January 2004 vessel owners will need to ensure that no sewage is discharged in these waters. Sewage management measures can include, always using onshore toilets when docked, encouraging passengers to use onshore facilities before heading out, containing sewage in a sewage holding device, and being aware of the designated areas in marine parks where discharge is prohibited.

Further details <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/qt/msq.nsf/index/sewage_mgt>here</A>


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[Rohorn]

Hi...Well I looked through it all and there was definitely no constructive advice about passengers classified as having diminished responsibity swallowing cherry stones, or emergency measures to be taken in case of holding tank / macerator malfunction due to totally unforseeable circumstances, with up to 8 passengers on board wanting to use the loo. (!) Nothing about adapting wet and dry vacs to do the job of a macerator, without the problems, and incidentally at a fraction of the cost.
Mark you, here in the Cyclades there are so few boats around at this beautiful time of year no one was going to notice anyway...just a couple of fishing caiques and they don't give a b****r.
Cheers.....R

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[HeadMistress]

Your cherry stone catastrophe MAY be even worse than the owner whose grandchildren clogged his electric toilet with bubble gum--which they'd swallowed because he'd given them strict instructions NOT to dispose of it down the toilet.

Are you sure the culprit actually swallowed the cherry pits...or disposed of 'em directly down the loo instead? 'Cuz it sounds like a LOT of cherry pits for anyone over the age of about 5 to swallow!

I dunno of any way to trap something that shouldn't be flushed so it can be removed without causing problems...the only solution is, don't give 'em anything to eat--or allow 'em to eat anything they may have brought aboard--that can't go through the loo and all it's related parts. ...which requires paying attention to what your crew and guests are doing...and if necessary inspecting foods they bring aboard. Or--regrettably--being forced to curtail future outings for guests too mentally challenged to understand what can and cannot go down a marine toilet even if they have eaten it first.



<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[Talbot]

Have you considered fitting your loo with some form of seive in order to trap cherry stones before they do more damage to your equipment? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Ships_Cat]

For the sea I think you will find that the need for a macerator in Queensland, if one is going to discharge, only applies to "Waterways". For out of harbours, etc those are what Queensland Transport define as "Smooth" and "Partially Smooth Waters". The extent of those waters is set out on their internet site.

Maybe Oldsaltoz can through some more light on this.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[Rohorn]

Hi Headmistress...thanks for responding. I've always respected your posts over a long time. The "culprit" in question is 35, with very erratic digestive function, who arrived for her annual holiday having just assisted in the cherry harvest at her home community. Devastating.
However, what do you think of a vacuum operated discharge system which doesn't require a conventional impeller / cutter pump? It was a real suprise (if not a pleasure) to see how effectively the wet and dry vac cleared out the tank. Sure, one was left with a vac full to dispose of, like a porta potti, over the stern. Seems to me that
1) Other vacuum functions like some recent oil-change gadgets, exist
2) There could be a market for such a product (called Poo Sucker perhaps?)
3) The technical problem to be addressed is to power the effluent overboard.
4) Also to make it compact, perhaps part of the holding tank itself.
5) A couple of switchable flap valves could work.
6) The cutter function reducing the effluent to a slurry could be retained, but developed to be pit proof.
7) Somewhere someone has already done it.
Would really appreciate your comments.
Cheers.....R

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[ianwright]

I\'ve said it before,,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,, and I'll say it again. The bog standard boat bucket has a lot going for it: Very few moving parts, easily servicable, multi-use, long lasting, uses no power etc etc.
Heavy duty reinforced rubber buckets of a superior type may be obtained from your local farm supply or 'horsey' shop.

,,,,,,, and no, I'm not kidding.Although I'm the owner of a well serviced Baby Blake (the best small boat bog imo) the bucket gets much more use.

IanW.

<hr width=100% size=1>Vertue 203, Patience

 

[Birdseye]

I also like cherries, and after years of careful practise I have trained myself to stand in the centre cockpit and hit the ensign staff with the pip. Apart from giving me a great deal of personal satisfaction at the skill involved, and my wife a great deal of irritation at the social consequences, this approach does avoid the stone in the poo problem. Doesnt work so well with olives, however. The stones lack aerodynamic properties.

Not sure about the vacuum cleaner idea. Seems to me that the stones are likely to go through the cleaner without modification. What you really need to get in line is something like your coffee grinder. That will trun the stones and associated matter into a fine emulsion, but do fit the lid securely before use. And wash well before making coffee.

One thing is for sure. When you do find the solution you will have a huge market. In my experience, Aussies are so full of sh*t that you cant fail to coin it in. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif



<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

 

[Gunfleet]

just reassure us...

that you're spitting these stones

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[HeadMistress]

Roger, any system to remove such items from the tank solves only part of the problem--in fact, is the least of the problem....'cuz that CAN be solved with a shop vac.

It's getting them through the toilet and plumbing without damage or a clog--or some means of "trapping" them where they can be easily removed before they can--that's the real issue (as you've already experienced)...and I don't know of any way to do that, short of replacing your loo with a mega-expensive Headhunter model, that they claim can swallow anything from loose change to a pair of pantyhose. You'll either have to invite your cherry-picking friend to go sailing prior to harvest or tell her she'll have to learn how to spit pits instead of swallowing 'em. Perhaps birdseye could be persuaded to give her some instruction in how to hit a target with 'em.

Or, bring a portapotty aboard for her exclusive use. Some problems just don't have any other practical solution.

Btw...I don't wonder that her digestive system is erratic after swallowing that many cherry pits...or that many cherries...Anyone's would be!



<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987

 

[Rohorn]

Hi Peggy....thanks for all that....the chewing gum story is gorgeous. I do carry a porta potti as an emergency reserve, but the time-bomb was planted, as it were, several days before the macerator was switched on.
This is going to happen again....I simply can't control or reason the problem away without elevating the stress levels and spoiling the pleasure. Perhaps one can suggest that the Porta Potti is a special privilege for her use only.(!)
The loo is a manual Par Brydon, and this seems to transmit cherry stones to the holding tank without hesitation. It's been a tank evacuation problem only, so far, (perhaps we've been lucky, if I understand what you were saying) and that's what I'll concentrate on.
Although the wet and dry has a "blow" option as well, I'm reluctant to use it in this tank clearing process. Hoses have been known to slide off stubs under pressure. One advantage of a cat (particularly the Dean) is the space available in which to play sewage engineers. I could fairly easily raise the effluent to a higher level staging tank with the "suck" option, and simply open a valve to let it drain outboard with gravity.
Thanks once again for your help.
Cheers.....R


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[Rohorn]

Hi....many thanks for sharing your sporting suggestion for cherry stone disposal. Yes, olive stones require more skill, but if one twists one's tongue around to represent the rifleing of a gun barrel, remarkable improvements can be made.
While in the cadets, in a previous existence, it was found that date stones were almost exactly .303 calibre, and when we were issued with blanks for the annual field day, things became radically more interesting.
I really appreciate the coffee grinder approach. That is good lateral thinking. It hadn't occurred to me to really attack the problem at a millimetric level, and I'll add the idea to the list of options.
Clearly, doubling up the duty of the various kitchen appliances on board is a noble ecological mission, much to be desired.
Cheers....R

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[HeadMistress]

Roger, unless you're in waters where you MUST use the holding tank, the best solution just might be a y-valve and direct overboard discharge from the toilet...at least while she's aboard.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987