LOTS of Water inside boat interior hull :(

[Venomgrass]

Hey guys,
Today I was gutting out our colvic sun rider 25ft. The boat has sat in the dock unused for 2 years. Removing old soggy carpets, lifting all boards and cupboards to spray with mildew & mould killer. Found several rotted pieces of wood, towards the bow around 3/4 back I lifted a small floor board which exposed a hole filled with lead and water. As I was cleaning the beds I looked behind them and found a large hatch completely filled with water around 1m deep!! Is this the anchor chain area or something. Is this really bad?

See the photos for more detail, thank you.

 

[Kelpie]

Assuming you haven't stumbled upon the water tank, then yes 1m deep water is rather bad. Check if it looks oily or smells particularly bad, and then if safe to do so taste it to see whether it came from the sea or the sky. 2yrs is a long time for water to accumulate so it could just be a minor rainwater leak.

 

[garvellachs]

Probably fresh water leaking in from the deck. Get it out with a bucket or something and leave it to dry. Then check the grp in there and the wood around the area with a good poke around. Try to sort out where it's coming from and stop it obviously. Most things can be sorted out I don't doubt, and it's a boat so water is what it copes with best? Calmness lays great errors to rest.

 

[William_H]

If it is a chain locker area then it will have a pipe leading to the deck which carries the chain. No my guess is that it is just an under bunk area in the bow. This can be used for storage or better still seal the cover to make a buoyancy compartment.
A said there is proibably a deck leak somewhere above the bow area that has let the water in over 2 years. This is not so uncommon with boats. Leaky decks letting rain in are something most of us have to get used to. You can spend a lot of time trying to find and fix leaks. Probably you have more priorities just cleaning up the boat. Yes rot in wood is the biggest problem. Expect rot in any wood that is wet. GRP lasts for ever but not so wood. good luck olewill

 

[Venomgrass]

Thanks guys I'll do just that.

As for the rotting wood.. Several panels are black and damp but still solid.. Can these be varnished still?
Some are completely rotted and I'll have to replace. Any particular types of wood plastic to replace with? If wood how do you treat it to protect from water and rot in the future?

If I'm required to fix it to the hull I'll use epoxy but will nee tret first as I don't want this happening again

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Thanks guys I'll do just that.

As for the rotting wood.. Several panels are black and damp but still solid.. Can these be varnished still?

The wood / ply will have to be completely dry before any surface finish is applied. The black is not likely to disappear when dry as I think the stain is a form of mould (not sure though). It can be sanded off if lightly stained. However, water stained wood usually requires significant sanding to remove the stains and therefore risks removing veneers or thinning the wood, better painting the wood after drying. Having said that Oxalic acid (which can be bought on line in powder form) can clean up stained wood to some extent. Mix up the acid, spray or brush onto the wood, leave to soak for a while, a couple of hours, wash off and leave to dry.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks guys I'll do just that.

As for the rotting wood.. Several panels are black and damp but still solid.. Can these be varnished still?
Some are completely rotted and I'll have to replace. Any particular types of wood plastic to replace with? If wood how do you treat it to protect from water and rot in the future?

If I'm required to fix it to the hull I'll use epoxy but will nee tret first as I don't want this happening again

Thanks

Most important is to get the interior completely dry before you do any work, and this includes stopping the water getting in. Then you will be able to determine what is sound and what needs replacing. Use good quality ply for any replacement panels and bond them to the hull if that is how it was done originally. You will find Robbins timber in Bristol a good source for boatbuilding ply, but you may be able to find a more local source. To protect, make sure the end grain is well protected if it exposed. Use a bilge paint such as Danboline for areas such as inside lockers and conventional paint or varnish for exposed parts. Some people use epoxy to seal end grain, but this should not really be necessary inside a boat which should be mostly dry.

 

[Dougal]

...and to get the boat completely dry at this time of year, is probably going to be a losing battle. Do you have access to mains power? If so, then fan heaters can work wonders, but only AFTER sorting the leaks. I wish you luck as we have similar issues:-(

 

[Venomgrass]

Thank you everyone. I've sourced the leak. On the exterior of the boat bow, there was a loose looking rusty square of metal (150mm square) almost directly above the leak see the red dot on the photo below from the outside of the boat. I pulled it off as it had been siliconed down, I found a sawn off square piece of wood which was completely rotted and actually runs straight down to the floor of the exterior. (See the image below the beam runs straight down to the hull I think.) Maybe the old location of the previous foresail mounting before the boat was upgraded with a Piece of wood extending from the bow to attach the new foresail roller to.





Questions:
1. Could I completely remove this beam?
2. Is it easy to patch a hole on the deck of the boat GRP where it will leave a hole?
3. If I remove all of the berths (soggy wood) is it difficult to build new beds? Any particular wood to use, or method.


Thank you again.


Thanks

 

[Binman]

I would think that post is redundant, it's rotten anyway, for the deck repair, I would fix a temporary plate under the hole, paint it with a releasing agent, then fill from above, resin and mat, make the bed frames up as before, are they bonded in to the hull, good quality marine ply, framing I think you would get away with treated soft wood, but others will correct me. Something that will keep the price down, best of luck, do you plan to lift the boat out this winter, you do want some heat in there,

 

[ShinyShoe]

2. Is it easy to patch a hole on the deck of the boat GRP where it will leave a hole?
3. If I remove all of the berths (soggy wood) is it difficult to build new beds? Any particular wood to use, or method.

To some extent this depends on your experience, skill and abilities. Plus access to tools and equipment.

2. Fairly simple. If you have access to the inside - very simple. Remove any loose material from the hole. Enlarge it if need be. Dry and clean with acetone. Clean up the inside surface, use some 40-80 grit paper to roughen up the inside surface. Then use some polyester resin mixed with catalyst to wet a square of Chopped Strand Matting (CSM) which is about 10-15cm wider than the 'hole' If this is non-structural this is enough. If Its structural you may need multiple layers of patch. Now from the outside fill the hole to just below the outside surface using some suitable 2 part filler. Finally fill the gelcoat surface with some catalyst activated gel or flow coat (Gel needs air excluded with a piece of acetate). You will struggle for a colour match. Use wet & Dry to sand flat. Polish with rubbing compound.

3Depends on your wood working skills. Would think you want a lightweight marine ply. Sourcing it is one of the hardest parts!

 

[William_H]

The post that goes from the keel up to and out of the deck I suspect is a "Sampson Post" . This was a traditional way to make a strong point for attaching an anchor rode or for towing or mooring. More apropriate I think for wooden construction. GRP boats tend to have a large cleat mounted with backing plate to the deck. Hopefully the deck is strong enough to take large loads. So you may want to fit a cleat at this same point. Some boats however will have 2 cleats on the bow mounted near the gunwhale which often is double thickness where hull meets deck. So much stronger.
Yes the hole can be filled fairly easily. As said you need a temporary patch under the hole which has arelease agent on it to stop resin sticking to it. Cling film is quite good smoothed out flat. Fill the hole with glass cloth or chop strand mat and resin. Finish with flo coat or resin with wax of the correct colour.
Unfortunately it will be difficult to get a perfect flat finish and if the area has non skid pattern then this is even more difficult to match.
When the fill from the top is hard enough remove the temporary under fill and lay up more GRP overlapping the patch. This will presumably not be too noticeable on the ceiling of the front cabin and will provide a lot more strength. Attach this patch within 24 hrs or less of the top patch to get a chemical bond. Again top layer of resin with wax or flo coat.
It sounds like this was a cheap purchase of a neglected boat. Don't be trapped into trying to make it a show piece of it with every thing perfect before you go sailing and useing it. If only 2 of you expect to sleep on board then then forward bunks can be just removed. This area in my little boat is always full of gear. Buckets sails and other stuff. The quarter berths are the most comfortable for 2 people. Minimum furniture can be OK for a day boat. good luck olewill

 

[Venomgrass]

Ok guys, we have. Problem! 3 issues regarding water leaks! And 3 photographs to explain.

1. As decribed, the boat has been modified, the old Sampson post chopped level with the deck of the boat and another piece of wood placed over the top of it with a square hole for the Sampson post so it is flush. They have capped it with a rusty metl Pete nd silicone nd it's been leaking. I've temporarily added more silicone to seal. Maybe it's still getting in through the piece of wood used to extend the foresail ?


My silicone temp repair to cap the rotted and exposed old Sampson post with an old square of ruted metal.


2. I was cleaning the deck and by the tiller, there's two holes. I'm assuming they drain the deck water away. I looked inside of the boat at the bow where there's 2 beds which are the aft births? I lifted the floor boards to expose 2 compartments port and starboard under each bed full of water? This is right next to the bilge should I not cut a hole so it drains here? Is this the normal route for deck water to drain from outside the boat?


Photograph looking back to the bilge and engine (top), and compartment full of water under port stern birth (bottom). Bad photograph but highlights water from these two compartments doesn't drain to bilge? Also under the inspection hatch on interior floor, full of water and lead should this also drain to the bilge?


3. In the fore births, right at the front of the boat is a V birth bed. Above it is a square hole in the fiber glass, and a circular window htch has been installed?? They've basically added a square piece of now soggy wood to cover a larger square hole and mount a circular window onto. This is soggy and falling apart. How do I go about repairing this?


Photograph of window from external roof. See the old square wood that's been used to mount the circular window over the square hole cut into the chin roof.


Thanks very much, help is really appreciated.

 

[bitbaltic]

I lifted the floor boards to expose 2 compartments port and starboard under each bed full of water? This is right next to the bilge should I not cut a hole so it drains here? Is this the normal route for deck water to drain from outside the boat?

No. Water on deck is not supposed to drain into the boat by design.

It seems you have a lot of compromised elements of the deck from botched work.

1) is the boat supposed to have a bowsprit- seems unusual. Can you remove it and make good the foredeck area perhaps re-instating a samson post;

2) is the ply square which hosts the circular hatch the same size as any commercially available square hatch with which to replace the whole thing;

3) a picture of the holes near the tiller would be useful to see if they are actual cockpit drains or damage which is contributing to the leaks aft.

Cheers

 

[prv]

Sounds like it's time for you to learn some fibreglassing skills

In each case the crappy old rotten stuff needs to come off, and the area cut and ground back to sound fibreglass from which you can build the new surface. It's easier than it sounds provided you don't mind the repair being visible (completely invisible like-new repairs are possible, but that takes real skill from a professional). A repair like this was one of the first jobs I did on the first boat we owned, and I'd never touched glass and resin before.

I don't have time this morning to describe in detail how to do the repair, but have a read of some of these guides, especially the "Repairing Damaged Laminate" one: http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/t-projects.aspx .

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the cockpit drains - but obviously they shouldn't just drain into the hull. There should be hoses leading through the hull to seacocks on the bottom of the boat.

There's an argument for connecting all the under-bunk lockers to the bilge, but personally I wouldn't. Keeping them isolated means that if you get water in the bilge from a leak in one place, it won't flood into all your lockers and get your stuff wet. It does mean that if water gets into a locker you have to bail it out manually, but hopefully once you've repaired the deck and the drains that won't happen any more.

Pete

 

[prv]

1) is the boat supposed to have a bowsprit- seems unusual.

Looking at the shape of the toe-rail mouldings, I think it is. But it may be rotten and in need of replacement. I think in any case it needs to come off so that the hole for the samson post can be glassed over (a wooden post right through a fibreglass deck is a poor arrangement, the builder copying too much from wooden boat techniques). Then if the bowsprit is still sound it can go back on, otherwise a replacement be made.

Pete

 

[reginaldon]

I suppose this post is unnecessary, but when the boat is ashore, make sure it is level or preferably down by the stern and the cockpit drains are clear. I've been continually clearing my bilges as the boat was down by the bows on a trailer -this will be righted on Monday - DV.

 

[ShinyShoe]

I thought we were dealing with a 50p sized hole the other day...! Ooops!

It's easier than it sounds provided you don't mind the repair being visible (completely invisible like-new repairs are possible, but that takes real skill from a professional).

Actually provided you can get surfaces pretty smooth, you can use some masking tape, grey flow coat, some non-slip grit and a roller and create some non-slip sections t hide things ;-)

I don't have time this morning to describe in detail how to do the repair, but have a read of some of these guides, especially the "Repairing Damaged Laminate" one: http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/t-projects.aspx .

EC guides are guide, and they are good guys to discuss issues with.

I'm struggling to get my head round the issues! But as suggested get all the wood off the bow, fill and fix and replace/renew wood. That hole needs multiple layers of CSM in it...

The window - not sure whats going on there. Do you want a window? Is the round window OK? If so then your simplest fix is to remove the wood. Remove any dodgy fibre glass and roughen up the surfaces. Take a piece of 6mm MDF at least 15cm wider than the hole on each side cover with cling film. Cut a piece of CSM thats 10cm wider than the hole. Put on the MDF/Clingfilm and apply lots of resin. Lift MDF from under the hole up. Secure the MDF in place - test how to do this before the CSM&Resin is flowing! That might be some prop's under neath. It might be a piece of wood on the outside with a couple of screws through the MDF to join it up...? Let cure. Add CSM to fill the hole. (for now you are just replacing the hole with a solid GRP panel. Aim for 5 layers of GRP if you can. If you think it needs it you may need to strengthen with some battens of wood on the inside covered with CSM.

With the strength in place, finish off the surface with Gel Coat and a plastic layer used to smooth the surface.

Once its all smoothed in you can cut that to take the old window if thats the plan...

I'm not quite sure what you're saying about the cockpit drains - but obviously they shouldn't just drain into the hull. There should be hoses leading through the hull to seacocks on the bottom of the boat.

Won't disagree with that. Certainly not into the hull...

There's an argument for connecting all the under-bunk lockers to the bilge, but personally I wouldn't. Keeping them isolated means that if you get water in the bilge from a leak in one place, it won't flood into all your lockers and get your stuff wet. It does mean that if water gets into a locker you have to bail it out manually, but hopefully once you've repaired the deck and the drains that won't happen any more.

One solution is to use bungs like a sailing dinghy uses. This allows you to open and close the lockers as needed. So you can drain down if they get wet, get a small amount of air in if they are damp (people will put wet gear in them!) and close them when you are sure they don't want to breath and you don't want to fill up with water from the bilge.

 

[Orion Jim]

It's beginning to look as though you'll end up with a sow's ear after having begun with such.

 

[William_H]

It's beginning to look as though you'll end up with a sow's ear after having begun with such.

No lets be encouraging. Once you have fixed the deck leaks then you can dry out the inside and decide how much wood work is rotten and needs replacing. The forward bunk structure could be ignored or even removed if you don't need them for sleeping. I on the other hand have sealed all the under bunk areas to provide buoyancy on my little boat. Be pragmatic about your boat. Get it cleaned up sealed on top and get out sailing. Or at leas concentrate on rigtging engine etc. If you becoe like me a day sailor then furniture inside is of little importance. good luck olewill