Lost Lifting Keel..Help Needed

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destroyer28a

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:eek:I have just had my boat lifted (Gib'sea 31, 1980 model) to find the lifting keel is missing, ( i did have my suspicions as the rope wasnt connected to anything in the keel box) I am wondering if anyone knows where a replacement can be made and where can i get the dimensions for it, does anybody have a diagram? and what weight would it be? i have read somewhere about 100kg. Judging by the growth inside the keel box it has been missing for a while, can the boat still be sailed without it?
 
destroyer28a said:
Judging by the growth inside the keel box it has been missing for a while, can the boat still be sailed without it?
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Um.

Perhaps I'm missing something (a bit like you) but if you haven't used the boat, won't the keel have dropped off somewhere between where she was moored then lifted?
 
OP only bought the boat recently so it's a fair question.

1. If the lifting keel was only 100kg I would assume that it slotted into a stub keel which accounts for the bulk of the ballast. If that's the case then the boat will sail without the lifting keel. It may not point quite so well but it won't fall over!

2. Odds are that the keel wasn't there when he bought the boat. I'll bet the vendor knew it had gone walkies!
 
Rigger Mortice said:
OP only bought the boat recently so it's a fair question.

1. If the lifting keel was only 100kg I would assume that it slotted into a stub keel which accounts for the bulk of the ballast. If that's the case then the boat will sail without the lifting keel. It may not point quite so well but it won't fall over!

2. Odds are that the keel wasn't there when he bought the boat. I'll bet the vendor knew it had gone walkies!
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Indeed.....


imagehelper.asp
 
I agree it's not likely to fall over and should be OK to try sailing it but remember the keel's actually missing as opposed to raised. That's 100kg very low down that's not there so she will be a bit tender I'd reckon, especially as there's enough of a stub keel to give some grip on the water. On the positive side most keels that go up inside a stub keel like that are fairly unsubtle in profile so it may not be that difficult to make up a new one. 1" steel plate of the sort of size your keel is likely to be would be around 100kg and would cost a couple of hundred if you managed to find it in a scrappies probably. Definitely go to the designers to find out what you actually need first. I'd have thought a mechanical failure would have been covered by the insurers but I'm guessing you didn't have a survey before buying?
 
Lifting keel

The designer should be able to help with material size shape etc.
However if that fails you can deduce a lot of the dimensions from the hole in the keel.
Thickness should be obvious but give plenty of space for A/F paint and barnackles. On the other hand thicker is best.
The length will be dictated by the c/b slot.
The picture shows a C/b that only partially extends. Better is a board that drops to vertical so is quite deep when down. This however will bring centre of lateral resistance further forward so making the boat more weather helm. I don't know how much this affect will matter in practice.
The keel should be rounded off at the front and have a tapering at the back for best foil shape however for a flat plate this does not matter much.
Make sure the leading edge is not extending below the hull/keel when retracted.
Perhaps the biggest problem will be locating the pivot hole for the bolt.
if you get a steel c/b give it a decent paint treatment before fitting as rust will be a big problem. I wonder if you could get it copper plated to stop fouling? good luck olewill
 
destroyer28a said:
:eek:I have just had my boat lifted (Gib'sea 31, 1980 model) to find the lifting keel is missing,
Click to expand...

At the risk of attempting to teach you to suck eggs..........

Are you sure that the keel really is missing? Lifting keels can get jammed by stones and barnacles in the stub and it is just possible that yours is up there, covered in weed. If you didn't poke around inside the keel box it may be worth trying.

There's usually some kind of access point above the keel so that you can bung a metal bar down to bash the keel down in exactly this kind of eventuality.
 
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It's to avoid this sort of thing that I recommend people with lift keelers winter the boats on trestles or full cradles ( fin keel style will not do, the hull has to be proprly supported with no weight on the keel area ) so as to allow proper maintenance; with boats larger than around 26' this becomes a serious engineering & financial challenge.

I agree with WilliamH, the reason the plate is missing must be that the pivot bolt has failed, and grp surgery may well be required as the first step to putting things right; one of the reasons I'm not a fan of pivotted blades, the boats I'm involved with have vertically lifting hoisted blades with the attachments on view.

As for paint, I have tried every treatment going, and have found the relatively new Dulux Metalshield is streets ahead - don't laugh at the 'Dulux', this is great stuff; single part but does require its' own primer.

This is on top of hot dip galvanising the plate to start with.

Destroyer28A,

If having trouble, I know a good foundry who could easily make and galvanise the plate, given the dimensions; but that pivot pin could turn out to be a serious pain, good luck.
 
Probably! But irrelavant as there would be a "no liability clause" for anything missed!
 
pappaecho said:
If the previous owner flogged the boat sans keel, surely the surveyor would have picked it up?
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While it's no good or comfort to the next owner, ( who should have insisted if he knew boats and / or engineering ) how the hell is a surveyor supposed to check a lift keel unless the boat is hoisted from a crane or in high trestles ?

Running the Anderson 22 & 26 lift keeler owners association I've mentioned this very strongly to some prospective buyers, to be met with the response " we don't want to bother / pay for a hoisted inspection"

No surprise these people didn't buy ANY boat, maybe happy with a lilo or pedalo; owning any boat takes a certain amount of effort, be it keel plates or keel bolts, as lives depend on these I suppose Darwin strikes again !
 
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Seajet said:
While it's no good or comfort to the next owner, ( who should have insisted if he knew boats and / or engineering ) how the hell is a surveyor supposed to check a lift keel unless the boat is hoisted from a crane or in high trestles ?
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He'd check it by raising it and lowering it. I think he would have a pretty good idea, if there was no weight on it.

I would not recommend galvanising a piece of plate which will sit mostly submerged in seawater, galvanising only works above water in an oxygen atmosphere. Far better blasted to SA 2 1/2 and coated in a high build zinc epoxy with epoxy glass flake topcoat
 
Seajet said:
While it's no good or comfort to the next owner, ( who should have insisted if he knew boats and / or engineering ) how the hell is a surveyor supposed to check a lift keel unless the boat is hoisted from a crane or in high trestles ?
Click to expand...

My own lifting keel boat has a keel box that intrudes into the cabin. This is made into a permanent table.

By undoing 6 bolts you can remove the table top and look down into the keel box to inspect and maintain the lifting mechanism.

It would be immediately obvious if the keel was there or not and what condition it was in.

But I appreciate not all lifting keels are the same, in fact is continues to surprise me just how many variations on a theme there are.

Regarding trailers for inspection, ask me after Tuesday and I'll tell you if the modifications to my trailer were successful, if so I will be able to lower my keel on the trailer for inspection.

It does appear however that the OP knew the lifting cable didn't seem to connect to anything. One can only assume he just thought the cable had snapped and the keel was stuck down.
 
Bobobolinsky said:
He'd check it by raising it and lowering it. I think he would have a pretty good idea, if there was no weight on it.

I would not recommend galvanising a piece of plate which will sit mostly submerged in seawater, galvanising only works above water in an oxygen atmosphere. Far better blasted to SA 2 1/2 and coated in a high build zinc epoxy with epoxy glass flake topcoat
Click to expand...

I suggest you get some experience with lift keel boats; reasonably close fits within keelcases coupled with best efforts preclude thick coats of paint.

Re. antifouling on ballast bulbs they are fine, but the usual half tide mooring will make short work of any antifouling, which is unnecessary anyway unless going blue water cruising.

I have had such a boat, galvanised lift keel with cast iron ballast bulb, on a half tide drying mud mooring since 1978; I've seen other designs attempt grp or epoxy coated plates fail dismally, as the slightest crack means water trapped alongside the steel keel.

A vertically raised - rather than pivoting - galvanised plate is the best option I've seen so far, and I've researched this re. future lift keel production boats; how about you ?
 
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