Loose or tights warps in a storm?

P

PhillM

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 Nov 2010
Messages
4,008
Location
Solent
Visit site
Pontoon mooring, marina. I used to keep my warps to hold her in tight but the wear from the fenders rubs away at the paintwork. Over the summer I have left the warps a bit looser and this seems to be kinder to the boat. On the ebb the boat os off the pontoon and even the flood doesnt seem to push her in too hard. SW wind blows her on.

But with the storms forecast for Monday, what’s best, tight or loose?
 
Angle is probably more important than tightness. Bow and stern lines should never be at an angle greater than 30 degrees to the water, as this can create really nasty snatch loads as the boat rises and falls. If you can, it is a good idea to attach a bowline from the non-pontoon side bow cleat to somewhere on the non-pontoon side of the boat. I've just had an email from Premier saying that they will regularly check all boats, so it might be worth calling to your marina to see what they offer.
 
Thanks Dom.

I'm at Premier Swanwick and I agree their service is great. The txt's are reassuring.

I will be going down on Saturday morning anyway, so just wondered if I should tighten up. I will take a look at the angles and see what can be done.
 
Actually one more thing, it is a good idea to put your fenders on in groups of two, in case one bursts. Also attach fenders to cleats, toerail & stanchions where possible to avoid all fenders dropping off if one guard wire breaks! Finally, if you've still got your headsail on, make sure the sheets are nice and tight and the sail tightly furled - I've seen many loosely furled sails shredded in a blow. While your at it, take a look at your lazy bag and if there are any flappy bits - bung on a couple of sail ties.

Then it's off to the pub!
 
Loose tights warp in a storm.

Tights should always be tight, particularly in a storm. Loose tights are a contradiction in terms.:)
Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 
dom said:
Actually one more thing, it is a good idea to put your fenders on in groups of two, in case one bursts. Also attach fenders to cleats, toerail & stanchions where possible to avoid all fenders dropping off if one guard wire breaks! Finally, if you've still got your headsail on, make sure the sheets are nice and tight and the sail tightly furled - I've seen many loosely furled sails shredded in a blow. While your at it, take a look at your lazy bag and if there are any flappy bits - bung on a couple of sail ties.

Then it's off to the pub!
Click to expand...

Good advice. Thank you.
 
Looseish, at a shallow angle and add rubber snubbers. Tie fenders to strong points rather than the guard rail. If you have to use the rail, take a turn around the lower rail before tying it off on the top rail - this spreads the load and stops them popping out if it gets choppy.
Finally, check your insurance is up to date!
 
I always tie a separate line/sail tie around the tightly furled headsail, the furling line is small and subject to chafe as it goes along the side deck and through rollers and it is the only thing stopping the headsail unfurling, so trusting a big sail to one line is taking a bit of a risk, in my opinion and all that. It's the snatch if there are any waves and chafing that are the problems, if you're blown on then burst fenders are not uncommon so the advice to put them in pairs is a good.
 
BelleSerene said:
Don't use your tights.
Click to expand...
Hmm. More spring than with rubber snubbers!

Seriously though, nylon warps, if long enough, give far more spring than rubber snubbers. Up to 20% stretch before deforming permanently.

After several years of leaving the boat in marinas where there's quite a bit of surge, the rules are simple.

1. For springs, use pairs of long nylon warps (one pair bow to stern, the other stern to bow - so around 10m long each pair).
2. One line of each pair is heavy, and left with as much slack as you can afford. Its purpose is to limit the maximum distance your boat can surge fore and aft. It mustn't have more than 15% slack, so you don't overstretch the light line . . .
3. The other line is only 50% of the heavy line's diameter, setup just taut. This is your real "spring", which centres your boat in it's desired position, keeps it in contact with the pontoon in light wind, but allows movement of up to whatever slack you've allowed with the heavy warp (up to 15%).
4. Bow and stern breast ropes often can't be positioned at sufficient distance to allow lots of spring, so they are best set up with as much slack as needed to stop the boat bumping other craft, bow or stern.
5. Chafe; consider chain loops for the shore side attachments, pipe sleeves through fairleads, if you can't visit the boat very often.
6. As suggested already, fenders are the weakest point. When rolling, they may catch under, or lift over, a pontoon. Long fenders, weighted at the bottom, overcome this problem to some degree. Foam mat fenders are less susceptible to catching. Best, though, is some form of "hold off" from the pontoon or quay. It's amazing the number of lines which criss-cross marinas when things get really rough!

And if you're rolling parallel to another boat, just check your masts aren't aligned. Bad for the mast-head gear . . .

I've never used snubbers or metal springs. The best stretch they give you is their own length - around 30cm. That's under half what you can achieve with a 5m nylon line.
 
Last edited:
jimbaerselman said:
Hmm. More spring than with rubber snubbers!

Seriously though, nylon warps, if long enough, give far more spring than rubber snubbers. Up to 20% stretch before deforming permanently.

After several years of leaving the boat in marinas where there's quite a bit of surge, the rules are simple.

1. For springs, use pairs of long nylon warps (one pair bow to stern, the other stern to bow - so around 10m long each pair).
2. One line of each pair is heavy, and left with as much slack as you can afford. Its purpose is to limit the maximum distance your boat can surge fore and aft. It mustn't have more than 15% slack, so you don't overstretch the light line . . .
3. The other line is only 50% of the heavy line's diameter, setup just taut. This is your real "spring", which centres your boat in it's desired position, keeps it in contact with the pontoon in light wind, but allows movement of up to whatever slack you've allowed with the heavy warp (up to 15%).
4. Bow and stern breast ropes often can't be positioned at sufficient distance to allow lots of spring, so they are best set up with as much slack as needed to stop the boat bumping other craft, bow or stern.
5. Chafe; consider chain loops for the shore side attachments, pipe sleeves through fairleads, if you can't visit the boat very often.
6. As suggested already, fenders are the weakest point. When rolling, they may catch under, or lift over, a pontoon. Long fenders, weighted at the bottom, overcome this problem to some degree. Foam mat fenders are less susceptible to catching. Best, though, is some form of "hold off" from the pontoon or quay. It's amazing the number of lines which criss-cross marinas when things get really rough!

And if you're rolling parallel to another boat, just check your masts aren't aligned. Bad for the mast-head gear . . .

I've never used snubbers or metal springs. The best stretch they give you is their own length - around 30cm. That's under half what you can achieve with a 5m nylon line.
Click to expand...

You sure about that Jim ?!

I use a nylon anchor warp, sometimes berthing warps, and nylon doesn't have anywhere near the elasticity of rubber snubbers or bungees, which is surely why they were invented.
 
As for clashing masts there used to be the theory of fitting a spinnaker pole horizontally from eye to eye on the masts to create a linkage, but I reckon this would create a lot of strain; better to stagger the masts unless there's no alternative ?
 
Seajet said:
You sure about that Jim ?!

I use a nylon anchor warp, sometimes berthing warps, and nylon doesn't have anywhere near the elasticity of rubber snubbers or bungees, which is surely why they were invented.
Click to expand...
They were invented because the idea was easy to sell!

If your mooring ropes are nylon, and you are using single ropes, they have to be so strong that you won't get any stretch out of them. Those are my "heavy lines", left slack in the twin line system. The thin rope then does all the springing - I used 9mm climbing rope which had been retired after reaching its scheduled number of falls. Breaking load about 1,700kgf. Exactly the same idea as a rubber snubber - spring until the big/main rope kicks in. It's just that more spring is possible.

Nylon will stretch anything up to 50% before breaking, depending its structure; 3 strand and twisted climbing ropes most stretchy. However, working loads must be kept well below breaking strain. Say, 5:1, 340kgf. So, limit yourself to using 10% stretch in the light line. In 5m, that's 50cm spring; more if you allow higher working working loads, more if you use longer spans.
 
Seajet said:
My berthing lines are not nylon !

Even if they were, they would not have the elastic effect of rubber, been there, tried it.
Click to expand...
The rubbers I'm referring to are the bungees which you can twist your warp around. Bungees about 35-40cm long. Rope probably twisted three times around the bungee. On that type, straitening the rope gives you about 20cm. Do you have a different sort?
 
jimbaerselman said:
The rubbers I'm referring to are the bungees which you can twist your warp around. Bungees about 35-40cm long. Rope probably twisted three times around the bungee. On that type, straitening the rope gives you about 20cm. Do you have a different sort?
Click to expand...

When chandlery rubber snubbers weren't available, I used ' Halfords roof rack ' style bungee shockchords, tied to the berthing lines with a rolling hitch either side of a loose bight of line about 1' long, if that makes any sense !

It worked very well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top