owen
Well-Known Member
can anyone give me their opinion on the advantages and disadvantages of loose footed mainsails.ie those using a boom but not slotted into it??
loose footed mainsail
- Thread starter owen
- Start date
moondancer
Well-Known Member
It is easier to adjust the mainsail for shape with a loose footed mainsail - as long as you have enough power and adjustability in your outhaul. I much prefer them.
G
Guest
Guest
For average cruising boat ? Added complication as it cannot derive any real benefit, in fact the average cruising boat in theory has sails cut / supplied that do not over-power the boat with regard to reasonable conditions. Unless boat was designed and supplied with LF Main - think its a waste of money and effort IMHO.
If it's a performance boat - that is different and needs sails that can be adjusted in all manner of ways ... so the LF main has definite advantages.
I have a theory - lots will disagree - many people put all sorts on boats, justifying by reeling of all sorts of benefits, better performance etc. I reckon 9 out of 10 times they don't know if it has or not, second they have convinced themselves in mind that it has .... Bit like the boy-racer really who puts a cherry-bomb exhaust on his car ... it sounds like its going faster so must be ... with sails - doing more to get "perfect" shape - so must be sailing better.
Most boats I know would be just as good with a slotted main as a LF .... and less things to think about ... my aim is to get out and enjoy - not start fiddling with bits of string every 5 minutes ... I had a race boat for that !!!!
All IMHO of course !
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If it's a performance boat - that is different and needs sails that can be adjusted in all manner of ways ... so the LF main has definite advantages.
I have a theory - lots will disagree - many people put all sorts on boats, justifying by reeling of all sorts of benefits, better performance etc. I reckon 9 out of 10 times they don't know if it has or not, second they have convinced themselves in mind that it has .... Bit like the boy-racer really who puts a cherry-bomb exhaust on his car ... it sounds like its going faster so must be ... with sails - doing more to get "perfect" shape - so must be sailing better.
Most boats I know would be just as good with a slotted main as a LF .... and less things to think about ... my aim is to get out and enjoy - not start fiddling with bits of string every 5 minutes ... I had a race boat for that !!!!
All IMHO of course !
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Krusty
Well-Known Member
A modern mainsail is made to take a powerful clew outhaul to adjust curvature to suit windstrength, and the cloth in the foot panel should not inhibit that adjustment: it should only function as an 'end-stop' to prevent wind escaping under the foot. If it works properly in that way, it is superior to a loose-footed sail. But if it is not a shelf-shape, and pulls down the foot, preventing the lower part of the sail taking its full curve, then the loose foot is better. Hope that makes sense!
flaming
Well-Known Member
Loose footed are very much superior.
Several major advantages, first it's much easier to flatten the sail, as much less resistance to the outhall. This is even more evidnet when a stack pack system is used as the sail cover in the slot provides extra resistance to a non loose footed main.
If a spinnaker is used, the gap between the boom and the bottom of the sail makes a very useful letterbox to drop the kite through and totally kills the power in the kite as it comes down.
It's also much easier to get the sail on and off the boom!
I can't actually think of any dissadvantages worth mentioning!
Several major advantages, first it's much easier to flatten the sail, as much less resistance to the outhall. This is even more evidnet when a stack pack system is used as the sail cover in the slot provides extra resistance to a non loose footed main.
If a spinnaker is used, the gap between the boom and the bottom of the sail makes a very useful letterbox to drop the kite through and totally kills the power in the kite as it comes down.
It's also much easier to get the sail on and off the boom!
I can't actually think of any dissadvantages worth mentioning!
G
Guest
Guest
Several major advantages, first it's much easier to flatten the sail, as much less resistance to the outhall
I disagree for a very simple physical reason :>
Take a length of string and suspend a small weight in the middle. Now try and get that line straight .... impossible.
The example equates basically to the loose-foot of a mainsail and the weight is the air pressure on it forcing a curve into its shape. It would take a lot of pull on that outhaul to get that foot straight and start to affect the sail. In fact the sail will continue its cut as the foot will be at max. pull.
I've seen quite a number of standard cruise boats go back to slotted boom mains ... they've tried loose foot and found it to no advantage.
As I said before - if you have performance sails cut and want race or near race style - go for it .... but I don't honestly think it will make any old girl pick up her skirts and run better !!
I would actually like to hear from the original postee - what boat he is thinking of applying this LF main too and what prompted the idea ?
I disagree for a very simple physical reason :>
Take a length of string and suspend a small weight in the middle. Now try and get that line straight .... impossible.
The example equates basically to the loose-foot of a mainsail and the weight is the air pressure on it forcing a curve into its shape. It would take a lot of pull on that outhaul to get that foot straight and start to affect the sail. In fact the sail will continue its cut as the foot will be at max. pull.
I've seen quite a number of standard cruise boats go back to slotted boom mains ... they've tried loose foot and found it to no advantage.
As I said before - if you have performance sails cut and want race or near race style - go for it .... but I don't honestly think it will make any old girl pick up her skirts and run better !!
I would actually like to hear from the original postee - what boat he is thinking of applying this LF main too and what prompted the idea ?
flaming
Well-Known Member
I'm not just plucking stuff out of the air here. I'm talking about extensive experience with both types of sail.
You do of course have either a slug in the boom, or a strap around the boom which keeps the clew close to the boom. The foot tension is then adjusted by the outhall, the outhall itself does none of the job of holding the boom up.
I can't see how this is remotely different from a fixed foot main, and as I said above it's the resistance from the bolt rope in the slot that is the difference. Especially in light winds when you want to ease the outhall on a reach to generate as much power as possible. You can do this much more effectively on a loose footed main where there is nothing to stop it taking on the correct shape.
You do of course have either a slug in the boom, or a strap around the boom which keeps the clew close to the boom. The foot tension is then adjusted by the outhall, the outhall itself does none of the job of holding the boom up.
I can't see how this is remotely different from a fixed foot main, and as I said above it's the resistance from the bolt rope in the slot that is the difference. Especially in light winds when you want to ease the outhall on a reach to generate as much power as possible. You can do this much more effectively on a loose footed main where there is nothing to stop it taking on the correct shape.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: loose footed mainsail ..... Plucking ???
Never said you were .... but also do not assume that who you are replying to has no experience themselves .... approx. 45 yrs out of my 50 ?? On Gaff, Ketch, Yawl, Clipper, Berm. sloop, Dipping Lug, Standing Lug. Loose footed, slugged, slotted .... thats mains, jibs, second jibs ......
Shall we carry on ??????
Simple fact - many slow boats are made slower by changing to LF main.
You mention the slug / attachment of clew .... no-one said it wasn't .... but what I said ........ is the foot of the sail is harder to straighten based on the line and weight example.
The only time a loose foot main comes into real play - is the light airs that you mention in getting a fuller shape to the sail ... but thats it !
I would say that a good 75% or more of the time - the sail needs to be tightened and flatter ... it is normal for a cruising boat with a slotted boom sail = to set up with tight foot. So where is this difficult to tighten ??
I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ?? I certainly don't - but then again I know how to construct a hitch that self tightens as you make it ..... and being a MAB cruising boat - do not bother slacking in light airs ... for what ? boats near stopped in that anyway ...
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Never said you were .... but also do not assume that who you are replying to has no experience themselves .... approx. 45 yrs out of my 50 ?? On Gaff, Ketch, Yawl, Clipper, Berm. sloop, Dipping Lug, Standing Lug. Loose footed, slugged, slotted .... thats mains, jibs, second jibs ......
Shall we carry on ??????
Simple fact - many slow boats are made slower by changing to LF main.
You mention the slug / attachment of clew .... no-one said it wasn't .... but what I said ........ is the foot of the sail is harder to straighten based on the line and weight example.
The only time a loose foot main comes into real play - is the light airs that you mention in getting a fuller shape to the sail ... but thats it !
I would say that a good 75% or more of the time - the sail needs to be tightened and flatter ... it is normal for a cruising boat with a slotted boom sail = to set up with tight foot. So where is this difficult to tighten ??
I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ?? I certainly don't - but then again I know how to construct a hitch that self tightens as you make it ..... and being a MAB cruising boat - do not bother slacking in light airs ... for what ? boats near stopped in that anyway ...
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moondancer
Well-Known Member
Flaming, you're spot on. Owen - just ask any sailmaker.
Tisme
Well-Known Member
I was persuaded to get a loose footed sail when I bought new sails a couple of years ago. I'm delighted with it.
owen
Well-Known Member
thanks for the replies. the question is a genuine one.the loose footed main i acqiured was new to me. i had never used one before. the sail shape seemed to be excellent and the foot could be pulled tight and it then acted like a normal main. there did not seem to be any disadvantages. i did ask a sailmaker and he was very much in favour of the loose foot.
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re: loose footed mainsail ..... Plucking ???
I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ??
We don't have any trouble (with a cruising sail). Also, we don't have a slug at the clew but rather have a car running on a track which all these LF guys in this thread don't seem to have mentioned using yet despite their claims to experience /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
For a cruising boat, by that I mean one that has to be independant, not a day tripper in sheltered waters, I personally would not go loose footed. For sheltered waters for a cruising boat I would still question its worth unless one is still in the early stages of a cruising sailing career where it is still great fun to be pulling on bits of rope every 10 minutes.
Off course, in sheltered waters, one could go loosefooted AND in mast but that may add to the contention /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ??
We don't have any trouble (with a cruising sail). Also, we don't have a slug at the clew but rather have a car running on a track which all these LF guys in this thread don't seem to have mentioned using yet despite their claims to experience /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
For a cruising boat, by that I mean one that has to be independant, not a day tripper in sheltered waters, I personally would not go loose footed. For sheltered waters for a cruising boat I would still question its worth unless one is still in the early stages of a cruising sailing career where it is still great fun to be pulling on bits of rope every 10 minutes.
Off course, in sheltered waters, one could go loosefooted AND in mast but that may add to the contention /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Dipper
Well-Known Member
I am into my second season with a loose footed main and am very pleased with it. The sail takes up a much better shape than my previous one with a bolt rope.
Of course, a reefed main is in effect loose footed with the sail ties only being used to gather up loose sail and not to trim it.
Of course, a reefed main is in effect loose footed with the sail ties only being used to gather up loose sail and not to trim it.
Sui Generis
Well-Known Member
"if you have performance sails cut and want race or near race style - go for it .... but I don't honestly think it will make any old girl pick up her skirts and run better !!"
What is racing then?
Edit - Sorry tisme, aimed at smallboatchamp
I'll get the hang of it one day . . . !
What is racing then?
Edit - Sorry tisme, aimed at smallboatchamp
I'll get the hang of it one day . . . !
Sui Generis
Well-Known Member
Re: loose footed mainsail ..... Plucking ???
"I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ??"
It's the easing that's the advantage??
"I would like to hear from others if they have trouble with tightening foot with a main IN the slot ... ??"
It's the easing that's the advantage??
Ships_Cat
Well-Known Member
Re: loose footed mainsail ..... Plucking ???
Actually, thinking about it, I don't think loose footed is even the best choice for race boats (by that I mean serious racers rather than casual weekend jollies /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).
Cos if loose footed is the way to go then someone better educate my home AC team at http://www.emiratesteamnz.com - I am sure that they would welcome the advice from the forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Actually, thinking about it, I don't think loose footed is even the best choice for race boats (by that I mean serious racers rather than casual weekend jollies /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif).
Cos if loose footed is the way to go then someone better educate my home AC team at http://www.emiratesteamnz.com - I am sure that they would welcome the advice from the forum /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.
John
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
I had a loose footed main when I bought my present boat. It had a bolt rope though!
Mind you it could till manage 5.5 knots to windward, not bad for an 18ft boat.
I had to get a new sail for the sake of pride.
(OK, it still had the topping lift on, but it was a mess.) /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Mind you it could till manage 5.5 knots to windward, not bad for an 18ft boat.
I had to get a new sail for the sake of pride.
(OK, it still had the topping lift on, but it was a mess.) /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
G
Guest
Guest
Old girl ...
Meaning some of the older, heavier cruising types .... older Westerly, Moody's, Colvics, LM's, Macwesters etc.
Meaning some of the older, heavier cruising types .... older Westerly, Moody's, Colvics, LM's, Macwesters etc.
G
Guest
Guest
Suigeneris .....
If you read my post - you will see that I said that myself !!
The tightening is in reply to the other who brings in such item. I understand the advantage in light airs and loosing of .... but not the tightening bit !
My whole point is for average cruising its an added complication that would not really make such a difference. We're here to enjoy sailing - not complicate it and add work to it. Yes some people like to twiddle, fidget with settings etc. - can't seem to let a boat sail as is ....
If the boat comes with it - fine fit and use .... if it doesn't and has a bolt-rope jobbie ... ???? My choice is bolt-rope and live with it till time to change. Then weight up whether to go for it or not ... I'm not convinced yet ..... and for a sailmaker - I guess its a slightly easier sail to make and he can charge a bit more cause its different ? Eternal cynic !!
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If you read my post - you will see that I said that myself !!
The tightening is in reply to the other who brings in such item. I understand the advantage in light airs and loosing of .... but not the tightening bit !
My whole point is for average cruising its an added complication that would not really make such a difference. We're here to enjoy sailing - not complicate it and add work to it. Yes some people like to twiddle, fidget with settings etc. - can't seem to let a boat sail as is ....
If the boat comes with it - fine fit and use .... if it doesn't and has a bolt-rope jobbie ... ???? My choice is bolt-rope and live with it till time to change. Then weight up whether to go for it or not ... I'm not convinced yet ..... and for a sailmaker - I guess its a slightly easier sail to make and he can charge a bit more cause its different ? Eternal cynic !!
/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
DeeGee
Well-Known Member
Re: Suigeneris .....
First, my only problem with a nonLF main was in easing and getting nice shape in the foot. However, I should be in a position to make some sort of comparitive comment, as, due to a misunderstanding with my sailmaker, I have now got my first LF main! (The new sail has no slug, I have pondered on that... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)
FWIW, on first acquaintance, the LF sail looks far better than the previous - but it would wouldn't it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
First, my only problem with a nonLF main was in easing and getting nice shape in the foot. However, I should be in a position to make some sort of comparitive comment, as, due to a misunderstanding with my sailmaker, I have now got my first LF main! (The new sail has no slug, I have pondered on that... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif)
FWIW, on first acquaintance, the LF sail looks far better than the previous - but it would wouldn't it. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
