Looks like I'll have to go for petrol

[robertt]

I want to get into boating next "season" and would be aiming for a family sportscruiser that allows offshore ventures, as I really fancy visiting some of the Islands off the West Coast of Scotland. I've already had some great advice from this forum regarding boat types. The problem is, I'm realistically going to be limited to a budget of £20 to £25K, and can't find the type of boat that I fancy for that money with a diesel engine.
The local brokers (Prosser Marine, Euroyachts, Kipmarina boat sales) all have boats that look nice within my budget but are inevitably all petrol engined.
So I am probably going to have to go with petrol in order to get the other features that I fancy in a boat (not TOO old, reasonably nice order and reasonable accomodation, I have 3 kids).
But from looking around the West Coast I realise that finding somewhere to refill the petrol tank is not that easy!
Why do so few marinas have petrol available?
Assuming a range of around 100 nautical miles (a rough guess I have come up with, prob not too accurate), I don't even know if that would get me to Islay (one of my main destinations), and even then I'm not sure I could even get a refill at Port Askaig or Bowmore (Port Ellen is apparently undergoing pier work).
Is it worth all the heartache? Hopefully.
Will I be restricted to short forays from Largs (who have petrol!)
What do others do in this area, does anyone have any advice for petrolheads who want to cruise?

Thanks for any advice

Robert

 

[kashurst]

Buying petrol can be tricky so phone all the marinas in your intended cruising area (beautiful area by the way did it a few years ago). Keep looking for a diesel engined boat though, as its definitely a buyers market so cheeky offers will be considered I'm sure. I took a 26 foot larson with a single diesel in PX at Kip Marina around your budget so they do exist and would make life cheaper and simpler. Moving a boat on a trailer or lorry within the UK is fairly cheap so make sure you look everywhere for your money. Condition is everything - a well maintained older boat will be better than a newish abused one. Enjoy looking especially now as sellers will be very pleased to see you. Just had a quick look on www.apolloduck and boatshed websites and there are quite a few boats around with diesels

 

[neale]

What do others do in this area, does anyone have any advice for petrolheads who want to cruise?

If you seriously want to cruise hold out for a diesel. When I had a petrol boat getting fuel was the biggest headache and I boat in the South East!

You'll also get near on twice the economy and therefore a massively increased range for the fuel carried.

As has already been mentioned, cast your net further afield as small sportscruisers are easily transported.

 

[laup]

My boat is in your price range...
Transport is relatively cheap for this size boat as it can be towed by a transit van sized vehicle. It cost me around £700 from Southampton to Plymouth
www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/motor-boats-for-sale/falcon-27-PYB6625

 

[ripvan1]

Transport is relatively cheap for this size boat as it can be towed by a transit van sized vehicle. It cost me around £700 from Southampton to Plymouth

cheap ???

 

[Racingfrank7]

I agree plenty of diesel boats about, stick out for what u want rather than making do.
The other thing is like others have said look around every where ( go see them don't buy unseen ) then just factor in the cost of the delivery into the boat price that's what we did.
To give u a idea ours was transported on a low loader 370 miles and cost a grand.
Last thing is its a good time to buy and don't forget to chip them heavily u can all ways go up !!

 

[paddy01]

You nailed the issues with petrol as availability and range. Using a friends Four Winns Liberator 201, a 20ft sports boat with cuddy but no ameneties, running a 5.7l V8 Petrol and with a 36 gallon tank we have a theoretical max range of about 72nm.

On the best of days this thing can achieve 2mpg and that's being frugal with the throttle, something we never are.

It's a 'play' boat really, not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not a cruiser by any stretch.

Yes we carry spare fuel, but there's a limit to what can be sensibly carried, and refueling this thing whilst out of the marina in anything but glass like conditions is nigh on impossible.

For the moment this type of boating is giving my friend a lot of enjoyment, mainly playing about within a couple of miles of shore in Lyme Bay, popping onto isolated beaches, calling in at Lyme Regis for breakfast etc. however I strongly suspect that in a year or less he's going to be looking at going for something less thirsty but more importantly more cruising range to venture further afield.

I'm not saying petrol cruising isn't possible, far from it, but I'd certainly suggest buying the right tool for the right kind of job and from what you describe that sounds like a diesel.

In any case, very best of luck with whatever you buy, I hope it brings you many hours of enjoyment!

 

[robertt]

Thanks for great advice folks, as always. I'm really being swayed once again towards holding out for a diesel. I really don't need the boat until next year so time is on my side and I can look around. I just assumed it would be better to buy from a reputable brokerage locally in case anything goes wrong but maybe that's a bit too short-sighted and limiting. I've certainly noticed a fair number of affordable boats online but didn't think it was practical to be travelling all over the place when there are brokerages nearby. I'm kinda hoping I manage to find something nearby. Can't believe how many of the boats at local brokerages are petrol, people must just buy them for fun days out rather than cruising. I still don't understand why the marinas don't sell petrol though.

 

[landlockedpirate]

Thanks for great advice folks, as always. I'm really being swayed once again towards holding out for a diesel. I really don't need the boat until next year so time is on my side and I can look around. I just assumed it would be better to buy from a reputable brokerage locally in case anything goes wrong but maybe that's a bit too short-sighted and limiting. I've certainly noticed a fair number of affordable boats online but didn't think it was practical to be travelling all over the place when there are brokerages nearby. I'm kinda hoping I manage to find something nearby. Can't believe how many of the boats at local brokerages are petrol, people must just buy them for fun days out rather than cruising. I still don't understand why the marinas don't sell petrol though.

Remember even if you buy through a reputable local brokerage you wont get any back up. Its a brokerage, not retail sale.

Cruising with a petrol boat is possible, but it takes planning and choosing your cruising grounds carefully. I believe single engined boats under 28ft should be petrol, however having cruised around the West Coast of Scotland I think diesel is more sensible up there. Distance between marinas, almost complete lack of waterside petrol and the shear effort of filling the tank with cans makes petrol a non starter.

We once spent a fantastic afternoon rafted off Tobamory, while everyone else relaxed, had a beer and enjoyed the sun, I was dingying back and forth to the local garage with jerry cans

 

[robertt]

I'm thinking it would take many trips to the petrol station to fill the petrol tank of a boat using jerry cans. I believe there's a limit to how much petrol you can buy (never mind carry) in cans. Sounds deeply impractical. Troon Yacht Haven tried to reassure me by saying there is a petrol station nearby despite the fact they don't have petrol but I can't imagine running back and forwards all the time, it would spoil the enjoyment. And if I moor in an unfamiliar location where the petrol station is not so nearby getting there might not be easy.

 

[Harry25]

Ask Neale

Robert you say your budget is 20 to 25k what about asking Neale (post number 3) if his boat is still for sale. Its well within your budget including transport. In case you didn't know Neale is the maintenance engineer for MBM so I assume his boat will be in tip top condition.

 

[Racingfrank7]

Stick to your guns, there's loads of petrol engined boats round us because you can buy petrol and a lot of people just play up and down the river, but the diesel engined boats command a lot more money to buy, hence why we had to go further a field to find the boat and price we was looking for. So don't worry about the local thing.
I would draw up a short list of must haves then run with that and see what u find, when u start looking the choice is rather large. For example theres a sports cruiser moored 2mins away from us with twin 70hp diesels in and last I knew that was 20k and looked in good nick.
As for the brokerage bit, like above your on your own really, so it's know what your looking at or a survey regardless of distance, unless u knew them locally and knew u would get some good will.
Just wait for a bit of snow then bargain hard be it where ever !

Ps I spent 2weeks on west coast this year when we had that great spring we only had 1day of rain and that was the day we was coming home, it's a awesome place and would love to cruise it in ours one day.

Keep us posted on how u get on with your purchase!

 

[kashurst]

Just to clear a point already mentioned, buying a boat is not like buying a car from a car dealer. A boat brokerage is acting as the selling agent for the boat owner. There are usually no warranties or guarantees. Some of the brokers offer a 3 month engine warranty on boats they sell, other offer nothing (something to bear in mind when looking around).

As for support if something fails don't expect the response you might expect from a car dealer. Again some brokers have very good reputations others less so. I have used York marina and they were very helpful. Also I have never used them but Essex boat Yards seem to have a good reputation from people on here, so its worth asking around not only about the boats but the brokers too.

Also as its your first boat buying a boat is a bit like buying a house not a car. they are often registered on the boat register if there is a mortgage on them (and its useful to help verify ownership too).

Any boat you are interested in, you want to see before ANY money changes hands the VAT receipt (preferably the original, but a copy is OK), Bills of sale showing ownership for at least five years (unless its newer than that obviously), CE certificate and/ or builders certificate if built after 1998 (I think - can someone else verify that??), and hopefully some maintenance records on the engines. If no VAT receipt is available don't panic as sometimes you can phone the original boat dealer to get a copy, but check first. If no-one has one again don't panic but it may be a good negotiation point. Theoretically the Inland revenue can check VAT payments but I doubt it has ever happened. As a result VAT on secondhand boats is always an awkward point. On a £3M yacht a surprise VAT bill would be nasty, at the £25K range, its very very very very unlikely anyone will ever ask anything, but that's your risk. Bear in mind that one day you will sell this boat the next person will ask the same questions

When you are looking at boats try and see past cosmetic issues like the colour and fabric of the soft furnishings, or how much electronics there is. Look at the engines, gearboxes and the state of the hull. They are the expensive bits, most everything else can be changed/cleaned etc easily. A clean and well maintained engine bay is often a good first clue as to how well looked after the boat is. Loads of oil/ diesel sloping about implies a sloppy owner.

Finally when you find one you like get it surveyed, hull and engines. and let us know how you get on.

 

[landlockedpirate]

I'm thinking it would take many trips to the petrol station to fill the petrol tank of a boat using jerry cans. I believe there's a limit to how much petrol you can buy (never mind carry) in cans. Sounds deeply impractical. Troon Yacht Haven tried to reassure me by saying there is a petrol station nearby despite the fact they don't have petrol but I can't imagine running back and forwards all the time, it would spoil the enjoyment. And if I moor in an unfamiliar location where the petrol station is not so nearby getting there might not be easy.

Its not great, but to get to some of the out of the way cruising grounds I have to do it.

If i know that waterside petrol is going to be an issue I carry 3 stainless steel 20L jerry cans and a folding aluminium trolley. I keep the boat as full as possible and fill the cans in the garage before we set off. The boat holds approx 350 litres, but the only place I have had real problems was Scotland, every where else in the UK has been fine.

 

[landlockedpirate]

For example theres a sports cruiser moored 2mins away from us with twin 70hp diesels in and last I knew that was 20k and looked in good nick.


Keep us posted on how u get on with your purchase!

Not really a "sports" cruiser though is it

 

[blueglass]

Some years ago I was in exactly the same position as the OP with pretty much the same budget. I finally gave up on the diesel and knowing all the pitfalls went for petrol and got myself a 32 footer with twin petrols. lovely boat - just what we wanted.
I spent the next few years in bitter regret. - it was a nightmare. the jerry can regime was intolerable, the costs were prohibitive and it had the effect of seriously restricting all my cruising ambitions. don't do it. They are cheap for very good reasons

 

[robertt]

Thanks again for all info, very helpful indeed.
Didn't know all that stuff about VAT, that's a concern
Blueglass - that's very useful info as that is what I am imagining might happen to me.
Neale - I didn't realise you were THAT Neale, from MBM. No wonder your posts are so informative, you certainly know your stuff! I am enjoying the feature on engine maintenance in MBM BTW. I guess therefore that the Bayliner boat you are selling has been well maintained. Would it be good for West Coast Cruising? I did see another locally for £8500 but with Cobra V8 petrol engine and probably a little weary and had hoped to find something in the slightly newer style.
My latest dilemma is convincing my wife to let me spend the cash as she's not quite so enthused as I am, although the prospect of me disappearing with the kids for the weekend might be tempting to her!
At least I have a bit of time to iron out my plans!

 

[paddy01]

Is it the OMC Cobra V8 you're referring to?

If that's the case you don't say which one as there's various. The only one I have experience of is the 5.7l V8.

Be very careful which leg it has when looking at these, one of the legs, and for the life of me I can't remember which, it is impossible to get certain spares for so it it breaks then it's game over.

The one I refer to above is pretty bullet proof, based on Chevy lump and mechanically pretty simple. They do eat points so it can be good to convert to an electronic system. It's not a cruising engine, at the best you'd hope for 2mpg and can easily get below 1mpg depending on conditions and how enthusiastic you are

Mind you, by 'eck they sound lovely, especially with the through transom exhausts

For those sorts of engines the iboats forum will give you lots of useful info.

Cheers

Paddy

 

[kashurst]

don't worry about the VAT thing, if your purchase has one or a copy great, if not go else where simples...