long strop wrapping round mooring question

[Marceline]

Hi - bit of a long question but thought best to check and ask:

At the weekend we finally slipped our swing mooring for our first sail and left our dingy on the strop.

But earlier on before we put the boat on there I'd made a (one of oh so many) rookie mistake of buying far too long a strop (4m which is way too much for our small boat - I've been wrapping it around the three cleats at the bow to shorten it which seems to work ok, but I'm looking to get a shorter one made up soon and replace it)

Anyway - when we returned to the mooring it looked like the strop had got wrapped around underneath the swing mooring with the dinghy blowing around/tides, and I was thinking 'oh, sh*t - how are we going to sort this as I imagined it'd chaffe the strop if it was still wrapped underneat'

so I decided to still pick up the strop and attach to our bow cleat for now, and unteathered the dinghy's painter and walked it back to the stern and tied it up to later jump in and try and untangle it.

I felt I needed a rest and a brew before trying to do that so sat for a while and tried to think through how to solve it.

But 10 mins later I looked up and ... the strop was all freed from underneath the mooring ball and we were on it's (way too long) 4m again (was VERY glad and hugely relieved to see this)

So - my questions are:

- did I read it wrong and the strop wasn't wrapped around the mooring chain ?
- or did the strop somehow unwind itself with the weight of the boat pushed by the tide ?
- and if so, is this usual and how these things tend to work ?
- or was I just very very lucky that day, and it could well be much worse/headaches next time it does this ?

I'm thinking of temp 'shortening' the strop next time I leave for a day sail (thinking of having a small bit of rope tied one end to the end of the strop, and using a rolling hitch further up the strop towards the base of the mooring ball to make it about 1.5m or so to the pickup float) - or could this be an even more risky thing to do?

any advice/suggestions/gentle mockery all very welcome



EDIT - ps, I should also have mentioned the mooring is on the Menai Straits, so strong tidal flows and the mooring has a heavy swivel+shackles

 

[Marceline]

here where a couple of photos I'd taken after I'd 'shorted' the strop again on the three cleats and lashed them down before leaving

 

[penfold]

- did I read it wrong and the strop wasn't wrapped around the mooring chain ?
- or did the strop somehow unwind itself with the weight of the boat pushed by the tide ?
- and if so, is this usual and how these things tend to work ?
- or was I just very very lucky that day, and it could well be much worse/headaches next time it does this ?

Maybe
Maybe; unless very unlucky the weight of the boat on the mooring will drag it all out.
It happens, the longer the strop and the more complex your local tidal/wind conditions the more likely things will get fankled.
Not particularly, although I've read that some places have it so bad they need swivels on their moorings

 

[Refueler]

Maybe
Maybe; unless very unlucky the weight of the boat on the mooring will drag it all out.
It happens, the longer the strop and the more complex your local tidal/wind conditions the more likely things will get fankled.
Not particularly, although I've read that some places have it so bad they need swivels on their moorings

Its generally accepted that swivels are used .... not using can lead to all sorts of problems.

 

[penfold]

No one uses swivels around here, no need.

 

[Skylark]

……….probably a good idea to look at neighbouring boats and their solutions for mooring in your particular stretch of water?

All looking good, @Marceline

 

[penfold]

……….probably a good idea to look at neighbouring boats and their solutions for mooring in your particular stretch of water?

All looking good, @Marceline

Very much so; the mooring contractors local to you will know what is needed for peace of mind.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Its generally accepted that swivels are used .... not using can lead to all sorts of problems.

I won’t argue it’s not a good idea, especially for our boat, which does the obvious antics on a swinging mooring. But nobody seems to fit them anywhere round here. Is it just money? Or do they have a drawback? We have an alongside berth, so not something I’ve researched recently.

 

[Marceline]

thanks so much for the replies and glad to know it was likely unwinding itself Penfold and that it did look good Skylark (and we were actually sat watching a neighbour tie up their dinghy to their mooring before departing when we turned round and realised ours had 'unravelld' - will keep looking at our neighbours as more boats come onto the moorings)

just to clarify and I should have mentioned - our mooring is on the Menai Straits, so strong tide tidal flows and we do have a heavy swivel (as do a few others)

 

[Supertramp]

I used to secure my dinghy to the mooring buoy with a separate short line and leave the strop in the dinghy so it was easy to pick up and secure to the boat on return.

I also used two strops which I don't recommend as they really did twist themselves up! The anti chafe looks really good but don't underestimate the wear that can happen in a short time in a gale or seas. I used to run my strop through a polythene tube just big enough to take the rope where it passed through the bow roller which helped a lot.

 

[andsarkit]

I have a chain as I don't trust rope. The light rope on the pickup buoy is slightly shorter than the chain and is always under a little tension and does not tangle. I also have a backup rope strop with a temporary light tie to the chain so when I retrive the pick up buoy, the chain and rope come up together.

 

[doug748]

Your untangling can happen naturally as there is a heavy swivel under the buoy to let it gently unwind - until it doesn't. The swivel can jam up or (esp if you leave the mooring for a few days) you can get a double twist that can only be sorted by getting a second line on the buoy and getting your hands wet.
You can get around it by using chain (like andsarkit) or throwing the line into the dinghy when you depart. A float or floats along the line can also help a lot, as can a length of pretty rigid tubing.
I like short strops but would not trouble to get a new one made up, it seems to me that taking the line to two cleats is a good idea, as are your check lines across the cleats.

.

 

[jdc]

It makes a difference if the attachment is to the top of the buoy or to the underside. If to the top, as per andsarkit's sketch above (and I think in the OP's photo), I prefer to use a floating strop. This makes pick-up easier as there is no little buoy to hook, just the rope, and since floating is unlikely to tangle with the chain/swivel underneath. But of course it could make it more prone to fouling someone else's prop; I say could as it's arguable that the pickup buoy is an equal fouling hazard in a strong tide, and it probably depends on the type of traffic past your mooring. It's quite a common approach here in Plockton where there is little traffic apart from sailing dinghies past the private moorings.

 

[Refueler]

Use of a swivel is of course optional and depends a lot on locational effects.

The usual solution to decide - is to see what Harbour Masters office advise for the location .. something that I know from own experience - some clubs / people fail to consult.

Club I was in ...... in Langstone Harbour had a General Meeting to 'vote' for increased moorings for 26ft + size boats. It meant moving all existing moorings closer together, shortening the scope etc. Many long term established members including myself were not happy with this as already we had instances of mixed boats 'tapping' each other when one swung, but other was still mud bound.
Those 'new' to the club who wanted the changes ... failed to take into account we were already only just complying with HM's mooring reqt's. The changes put us in conflict with HM's reqt's.
Unbelievably - they ignored and forced through the changes and the inevitable happened ..... BANG BANG BANG ..... despite using a 'commercial operator' to move the moorings / shorten scopes etc. - we had more boats go walk-about than ever before ... more boats bumping each other ... and a huge bill to pay to the operators.

I only illustrate this - its wise to check out HM's reqts ... they have been devised usually after many years of experience and events.

As to swivels ..... any boat that is subjected to swing / tide / wind / it can be a good item to use ....

 

[oldbloke]

In your original post you appeared concerned about the length of the strop when you left the dinghy attached. Within reason, a good length of painter to the dinghy makes picking up the mooring much easier if you just snare yourself gently between the two and sort yourself out at leisure. Especially with smaller, lighter boats that are more prone to be blown off by errant gusts.
Obviously don't have it so long as to impede other traffic

 

[Refueler]

Just a comment ... I look at various boats and you see that design does not really lend itself to swinging moorings. many have lost the strong samson post / bollard mooring on foredeck to get a more flush area.
Many now relying as here - on smaller cleats.

I always liked to have 3 strops .... not one big fat diameter strop. First went to main mooring post on foredeck. That carried the usual load. Second went to a cleat or other strong point and would share load if first was 'slightly' stretched. Third was 'insurance line' which I usually made to the mast tabernacle with tiny bit of slack ...

The three were lightly held together outside of the boats bow by light cord - so picking up was simple affair of hooking up the longer #3 strop ..

Why ? My Alacrity with single strop to an oak samson post broke free years before and ended up on Farlington marshes ....

I never used an eye in a strop .... that way I could always let go even when under strain. Using smaller diameter lines (total of the 3 exceeded size of single ... ) meant that making fast was easy - needed no 'keeper lashings' as OP shows ...

Just commenting ... many other ways to moor as well ....

 

[Neeves]

It may be that your long strop unwound itself from the mooring and now the mooring has adopted all those turns. It may also be that your mooring has a swivel at the seabed (or near seabed) and the turns have all been accommodated by the swivel.

Your dinghy might not have the windage nor resistance to tide and simply wound itself round the mooring pennant. Your yacht has greater resistance and the tension in the pennant slowly released the turns and or allowed the torque to turn the swivel.

Unless you describe your mooring design - we are all guessing - which is of no use to you - its just confuses. Is your mooring chain, chain and rope, swivel, no swivel etc etc?

Jonathan

 

[Marceline]

I used to secure my dinghy to the mooring buoy with a separate short line and leave the strop in the dinghy so it was easy to pick up and secure to the boat on return.

I also used two strops which I don't recommend as they really did twist themselves up! The anti chafe looks really good but don't underestimate the wear that can happen in a short time in a gale or seas. I used to run my strop through a polythene tube just big enough to take the rope where it passed through the bow roller which helped a lot.

Thanks so much - we're heading back this weekend and I'm going to try this with our dinghy - will also try and get something like the tube to try and reduce the chafe from our bow roller

 

[Marceline]

I have a chain as I don't trust rope. The light rope on the pickup buoy is slightly shorter than the chain and is always under a little tension and does not tangle. I also have a backup rope strop with a temporary light tie to the chain so when I retrive the pick up buoy, the chain and rope come up together.
View attachment 156077

that's a really helpful diagram and explanation - thanks ever so much

the mooring tech who sold us our swivel/shackles suggested he could make a chain for us, so we'll def go for that next year (Y)

 

[Marceline]

Your untangling can happen naturally as there is a heavy swivel under the buoy to let it gently unwind - until it doesn't. The swivel can jam up or (esp if you leave the mooring for a few days) you can get a double twist that can only be sorted by getting a second line on the buoy and getting your hands wet.
You can get around it by using chain (like andsarkit) or throwing the line into the dinghy when you depart. A float or floats along the line can also help a lot, as can a length of pretty rigid tubing.
I like short strops but would not trouble to get a new one made up, it seems to me that taking the line to two cleats is a good idea, as are your check lines across the cleats.

.

cheers for the info and will try the 'drop the strop into the dingy' approach this weekend, and glad to know you think the strop would be ok with how I'm taking it around the cleats and lashing them down