Lombardini engines - feedback good or bad?

[Jomo]

Having bought a new (to us) boat last year, and spent the winter trying to fix as much as I could, I finally turned to the engine. The original is a Volvo 2003T. The turbo had seized at survey, and the heat exchanger is spraying water from the joint below the turbo (judging by the corrosion). However, the engine was started (with some difficulty) a couple of weeks ago, so it does run. If everything else is good (yep, I know, big if), I could be looking at £700.00 for turbo repair, and up to £2500.00 for a replacement heat exchanger, plus fitting, say £3500.00 all in.
On looking around, a Lombardini 1404 should fit the slot if I went for a replacement. I can't currently find anything else that'll fit without a fair amount of sawing, bashing, drilling, etc, etc. I can get a new Lombardini delivered for about £5600.00, and it shouldn't need much in the way of jemmying into position. However, my 'professional mentor sucked large amount of air through his teeth when I detailed my plan, indicating he wouldn't have anything to do with them.
So, can anyone give any feedback on the Lombardini engines. I realise they are lighter and cheaper, but will they handle the environment? Or is there anything out there that might fit in a slot previously holding a Volvo2003T?

Ian

 

[richardbrennan]

No personal experience of Lombardi engines, but when faced with a similar situation a few years ago when I had to either spend a considerable sum on a new saildrive for a Volvo 2030, or go for a new engine, (a Volvo D1-30 that literally slotted straight in), I though it was a bit of a no brainer. I would have saved myself a couple of thousand by just replacing the saildrive, but would still have had a fifteen year old engine, which although it was running perfectly at the time, (I sold it on eBay for a reasonable sum), may still have had a few future gremlins lurking unseen.

One think you may you have to bear in mind is that you may need a new prop, I am pretty sure the Lombardi will spin the other way to the Volvo.

 

[Jomo]

Hi Richard,

I'm informed that I can request the engine delivered with the 'forward' output spinning whichever way I like.

Is the D1-30 expensive do you know? It fits the slots for a 2030, are they the same size as a 2003?

Ian

 

[Tranona]

Hi Richard,

I'm informed that I can request the engine delivered with the 'forward' output spinning whichever way I like.

Is the D1-30 expensive do you know? It fits the slots for a 2030, are they the same size as a 2003?

Ian

Depending on the boat a D1 30 is not a direct replacement for a 2003T. The normal replacement is a Beta or Nanni 38, or 45 if your boat is particularly heavy. The 2003T is nominally 43 hp and a D1 30 is 29. A D1 40 would probably be better, but is significantly more expensive than a Beta/Nanni. Somewhat surprised you think the Lombardini (which has a chequered history here for distributors) is easier to fit.

Would not worry about rotation direction as you will almost certainly need a new prop whichever engine you choose.

Replacing the 2003T is a good idea - not one of Volvos better attempts and the replacements will be far smoother quieter and more reliable, and inevitably keeping ancient design engines running in the future will become even more difficult and expensive.

 

[Pete7]

Whilst the turbo version is a bit weak, the non turbo 2003 is okay. How big is the boat and does it need 40hp? or would the non turbo version do which would be a drop in replacement at £1500 less a few bob for the trade in. Those folk have a number of second hand engines in your range for £2500. No connection.

http://www.marineenterprisesltd.co.uk/

 

[Jomo]

Thanks to both replies above,

Tranona, the dimensions of the Lombardini with an 8 degree angled gearbox are 10mm bigger, and the feet width is the same. The prop shaft currently has an aquadrive fitted, so I'm thinking the unit 'should' fit t' hole. plumbing will be different, but can hopefully work around that.

Pete7, it's a 36 ft 11ish ton vancouver, with a 'one off' interior. Probably needs the 40hp, don't want to rebuild the engine bay if I can avoid it.

Betas, Nannis etc, etc, all have dimensions requiring fairly significant engine bay adjustment. A D2-40 should fit fairly closely, but we're talking nearly twice the price, just for the unit.

Ian

 

[Tranona]

Can see the attraction of the Lombardini. However it is nowhere near enough power for your boat. Even with a 2.6:1 reduction and a 16" propeller you will barely achieve 6 knots. You need at least 40 real hp to get hull speed so a Beta 45 would be the most appropriate engine. The 38 would get almost there.

The Lombardini is a small capacity lightweight OHC engine and is very complex compared with the simple Kubota engines Beta and Nanni use. To get the performance you would need to go up a size in Lombardini and that is similar physical size to the Kubota.

Think you have to recognise that if you want reasonable motoring performance with a heavy boat like yours (even if it were near to the design weight of 9300 kgs) you need the hp. That was the attraction of the original 2003T which gave the power from a physically small engine because of the turbo. However as you have discovered it is not the best solution and nobody else pursued the small turbo route as the smaller lighter naturally aspirated base engines came on stream.

 

[richardbrennan]

As Tranona and others have said, the D1-30, which is 28 HP would be a bit short on grunt in your boat. I also think you would need to check if you do consider a replacement Volvo, as a friend has a 2003 and apparently the filters etc. are on the opposite side to the 2030 and D series engines. You might get away with the same prop if the engine is the same HP depending on the final drive ration. The D1-30 is a slower revving engine than the 2030, but has a higher final drive ratio, so the prop rpm at max revs is the same.

 

[Pete7]

They have a 2040D for £2500 less yours in part exchange if they will take it. Otherwise you are in for a 4 cylinder engine and changing the engine box.

http://marineenterprises.apolloduck.net/detail.phtml?id=404296

Pete

 

[Jomo]

Thanks again to all.

It seems I'll have to take a step back and join the real world. Oh well, now where's my bank manager's phone number

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

I have fitted two Lombardinis.
The first was a single cylinder on my first boat with a 'cabin' (Vivacity 20). That engine now lives on 12-foot open boat that my son sometimes uses for fishing.
The second one was a replacement for the original Volvo MD6a (or 7a?) on my Centaur. It was a 3-cylinder LDW903M that gave 27hp continuous. More than man enough for the job. I sold the Centaur five years ago, after fourteen years of use, and that engine is still running well. The new owner is still a good friend.
If or when the time comes for me to replace the 43-year old Volvo MD2b on my present boat (Centurion 32) a Lombardini would be very high on my list of candidates.
Biased? No. Satisfied? Most definitely.

 

[Tranona]

The latest Lombardini engines are very different from the ones you fitted. They are lightweight OHC Kohler engines - as usual designed as base engines for industrial applications. They are rarely seen outside Italy, although clearly Lombardini would like to see more adoption in other markets - but tough against the existing well established competition.

 

[Koeketiene]

PM sent

 

[owen-cox]

Why dont you just replace the turbo and convert the engine to sea water cooled. it should be a simple thing to do. the seawater leaks that come with VP 2003 are all solved if you use new rubbers every time you remove a pipe from the engine and replace it. I think they are a superb engine. They are built very strong and as we ran fleets of them in Sunsail with well over 8,000 hours on them not one had an issue papart from having to decoke the head of one or two at very high hours. this was half a days work for us and it ran great again for years after that. I saw one of those boats for sale recently and it was still on its original engine and they were fully chartered to death in 1992!

 

[Daydream believer]

I only had a small Lombardini, & this was a marinised generator engine. But I did like the fact that all the accessories, starter, alternator etc were all interchangeable with other parts, not being Lombardini specific. That made spares relatively cheap.
The one (but only perceived) problem was that, at the time, there was only one main agent. I am sure there are more now. However, being near Volspec I am glad I have a Volvo Penta engine, as any parts or special servicing can be carried out by an excellent service agent

 

[Jomo]

Thanks again to all......stirring it into the soup, hopefully the right decision will be strained out.

Owen, the leak is from the heat exchanger, and currently we can't get it apart. If we can manage that trick without further damage, it'll need the corroded bit grinding back, then re-welding (it's aluminium), and then re-assembling without damage. Possible, but am I potentially just 'papering the cracks'?

 

[Heckler]

Thanks again to all......stirring it into the soup, hopefully the right decision will be strained out.

Owen, the leak is from the heat exchanger, and currently we can't get it apart. If we can manage that trick without further damage, it'll need the corroded bit grinding back, then re-welding (it's aluminium), and then re-assembling without damage. Possible, but am I potentially just 'papering the cracks'?

The turbo will probably be a Garrett so the middle bit with the bearings will be exchangeable with a truck unit, ie cheapish. I have seen corroded alloy VP heat exchangers cut and welded as good as new, BUT you need a good man to be able to,do all these works. I could do it but dont want to!
Stu

 

[Jomo]

The turbo will probably be a Garrett so the middle bit with the bearings will be exchangeable with a truck unit, ie cheapish. I have seen corroded alloy VP heat exchangers cut and welded as good as new, BUT you need a good man to be able to,do all these works. I could do it but dont want to!
Stu

 

[owen-cox]

Thanks again to all......stirring it into the soup, hopefully the right decision will be strained out.

Owen, the leak is from the heat exchanger, and currently we can't get it apart. If we can manage that trick without further damage, it'll need the corroded bit grinding back, then re-welding (it's aluminium), and then re-assembling without damage. Possible, but am I potentially just 'papering the cracks'?

I think I would turn it to raw water cooling and throw the heat exchanger in the bin. much simpler and I cant see any advantage to it honestly. all the UK based boats I looked after were raw water cooled and all were fine and a lot less complicated. I think you may need a couple of blanks to blank off the block recirculation system but that wont be too much even from VP.

 

[Tranona]

I think I would turn it to raw water cooling and throw the heat exchanger in the bin. much simpler and I cant see any advantage to it honestly. all the UK based boats I looked after were raw water cooled and all were fine and a lot less complicated. I think you may need a couple of blanks to blank off the block recirculation system but that wont be too much even from VP.

Not sure that is feasible on the turbo version as it has an aluminium oil cooler in the circuit which is a weak point for corrosion even with fresh water cooling. The whole engine is a bit a bit of a dogs breakfast and messing about with it will only make it worse.