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chris220954

chris220954

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Joined
4 Nov 2008
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109
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Alta,Norway
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Hello everybody from snowy Norway,ive just loged in for the first time ,it looks really interesting,can anybody help me please with all your years of experiance,i am realising my life dream of living on a sail boat soon,my dilema is that i am not sure which model to buy,i am an experianced sailor,been sailing in the north of Norway all my life ,i am 54 years old,i want a boat which i can sail alone,and meet up with family and freinds at my destination,thankyou,,,Chris
 
There really is no simple answer. You need to decide first on a number of things. Where are you going to sail? What are your priorities on performance or comfort? How much do you want to rely on aids such as power winches and electronics? Very important is the size of your budget. On this forum you will find people like NickJR who is circumnavigating in a Contessa 26 at one end and others who are doing similar in 40ft+, although usually with a crew or as a couple.

The consensus for single handing sems to be 30-35ft of the more traditional type of boat like Conachair in his Ebbtide 33.

No doubt others will come along and give you more specific advice.
 
Hi tranona,thanks for your reply,my budget isnt so important as i am a retired investor,i would like a fairly modern boat modern aids and power winches,and i suppose the comfort thing comes before performance,i want to start out with a trip to the med,and then i will progres further afield,(excuse my English spelling,lol)once again thanks for your reply,we Norwegians have always found the Brits to be very ploite and helpfull,,,,regards chris
 
For the Med , a boat less then 12m (38ft) and draught of less than 2m is pretty handy for a couple, but 35ft is more managable for single handed work.
A shallower draft may be preferable if you plan to use the French canal system.
Many places in the Med now have "banded" mooring charges which go up to 10m, up to 12m and up to 15m and the costing is on an area basis so that the cost for 15m may be three times that for 10m.
There are many excellent scandanavian boats and for example the Hallberg Rassy 36 is a well proven design with good resale value when there isn't a recession on!!
Good luck and good sailing.
 
Will second saltwater gypsy re the HR, esp if money is not the main issue. You intend to meet up with family and friends - a 36 may be a bit small if you have a crowd coming to visit - a 42 might be more accomdating, and is a gorgeous boat.
BTW, thought Vikings had a preference for motor-sailors?
 
You should look at all the Swedish cruisers: Najad, Malö and Hallberg-Rassy. These are very well-built, comfortable, go-anywhere sailboats. But if you want a yacht that also gives you some adrenaline rush while sailing and that you can take racing as well as cruising; check this out Sweden Yachts
 
[ QUOTE ]
fairly modern boat modern aids and power winches

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a lot to be said for keeping things as simple as possible. In particular, electronics in close proximity to seawater is always going to present problems... Most complex boats (ie. big boats), when first launched, often have a factory team chasing them from marina to marina, repairing things - until they get over the "infant mortality" stage of unreliability. The truth is, that the (un)reliability curve is shaped like a "bathtub", and starts to head up north again (about the time any warranty runs out!).

The more stuff you have aboard, the more of the time you will spend trying to figure out why it isn't working as you would like it to.

So even though you might well be able to afford complexity, the advice offered above, about stout-hearted little ships, that are not too large and not to complex, is right on (IMHO).

The HR36 mentioned is a really very fine boat, but even at that size (or certainly getting much bigger than that) single-handing will get increasingly difficult, particularly entering or leaving the marina, and more particularly when the going gets heavy, or something breaks. That might make you think twice about going sailing, and that would be a shame...

Really, for single-handing, the smallest boat (within reason) that will comfortably carry everything you need, might well be the best size. Personally, I really fancy the Vancouver 34 classic (and even that is large for single-handing, by some measures - look at the typical "Jester Challenge" boats).

.
 
Thankyou all very much for your advice,i will be looking on the computer later at the suggested boats,the only thing i am worried about is that if i decide to buy a a boat in the 35 ft region then it could be a little cramped when my family join me down there in the med,on the other hand a larger boat could be a hand full in the bad weather,dont forget i will be coming from Norway and theres always that "Bay of biscay " to get through,( alone)
 
[ QUOTE ]
HR36 mentioned is a really very fine boat, but even at that size (or certainly getting much bigger than that) single-handing will get increasingly difficult, particularly entering or leaving the marina

[/ QUOTE ]I don't agree that size has much to do with if a boat is easy to sail single-handed. Much more important is layout of cockpit and keel and rudder form. I have a 39 footer that is very easy to sail by myself. I do it often. Due to a deep fin keel and big spade rudder, this is significantly easier to handle in a marina than a smaller boat with a long keel. The Vancouver you mention has a long keel I guess?.

So: size is not everything! It is how it is designed that matters.
 
Unless you're absolutely decided to go it alone, I'm sure you could find crew for the Biscay leg. Popeye volunteered (read stongly encouraged by me) to crew on a Med-Irish sea trip last year - ad found on YBW SBC crewing forum
 
Long keel - yes, but that's not important (for me) in itself.

Amongst my criteria for my "next" boat are:-

5 berths (size of family, *when* they actually come with me)
Enough water for some level of independence (certainly 50gals, ideally more like 100gals)
Plenty of stowage space (lockers)
Two straight settees in the saloon (most comforable place to sleep on passage)
Furling genoa (I'm not a masichist)
Battened main, slab reefing.
Easy to handle single-handed (even though family might be aboard at the time).
Easy motion, particularly in heavy weather (my poor stomach)
Not too much complication or inter-dependence of individual items.
Not too much draught.

... and a bunch of other things to do with maintenance...

... but "easily single-handed", for me. I think means smaller (but some of the other items limit how small that can be). I've been sailing a much bigger boat short-handed, and very successfully - but I'm clear that there are scenarios where things go wrong, that can be much easier to manage in a small boat than a big boat - just getting a sail down when the sea is up, and the wind blows up a bit quick, for example...

... and there are lots of places you can go in a smaller boat that are closed to you in a bigger boat...
 
Yes ladyjessie size is not everything,lol,ive just looked at the halberg rassy boats,Hmmm ,very nice and keeping it in the family so to speak (Skandinavia),and maybe i am jumping the gun by worrying about the Bay of biscay,i mean i wont be leaving much before next easter and i will just have to plan my trip very carefully,i can hang around in northern france or even southern Britain for a good weather window,its a few years ago that i experianced the "Bay" and that was on a rather large freighter,and it wasnt much fun,
 
Size of boat is not just important for close-quarters handling, but also for availabilty and cost of berthing, especially if you are coming to the Med.

I've been here on a 31' for 6 years, the boat is an ideal single-hander being originally designed as an single-handed offshore racer.

I've had the whole family aboard for a fortnight, 4 adults and one 6-year old, but that is a little cramped.

The boat is ideal for two.

I think anything up to 40', properly laid out is handleable by one person.

Do (and I'll raise howls of protest here) avoid full-keel boats. Their alleged sea-kindliness is down to their (usually considerable) weight and they are a major handful in confined spaces when you're berthing. That's one thing you cannot afford as a single hander. They are usually slow under sail and have limited motoring capability (the latter very important in the Med).

If you go much larger than 34' you start to need power assistance, if you're single handing - that's a step change in complexity and hence in unreliability.

Do not expect to get into a new boat and have it 100% problem-free. Even with the good QAS of Swedish boats they have teething problems.

The Biscay is no great challenge, I'd suggest coast hopping, most people, grey-faced with fatigue and fear, do it in one hop and miss out a delightful coastline and people. You're equally likely to find as challenging weather in the Med if you sail from April-November as I do.
If you are going to do any long hops, leave out the Spanish coast from Gib to the Costa Brava, it's overcrowded, overpriced and hideous.
If you are coming the scenic route, make sure you stop off at the Picos d'Europa and the Rias Biaxas in Galicia.

I'd not be as impertinent as some and advise the make and model of boat, but here are some functional criteria:-
1. Make sure it has full standing headroom for yourself
2. That there are no enormous open spaces and plenty of handholds below, for you or crew to be hurled across in heavy weather. Broken ribs can be very debilitating.
3. Lots of stowage - the only drawback with Alubat's Ovnis.
4. A long waterline length for the OA length - it gives speed and carrying capacity.
5. Diesel tankage for about 48 hrs at cruise-power.
6.Water to allow 200l per person you'll have on board normally. a watermaker is an alternative route.
7. Plenty of ventilation, with appropriate mosquito netting.
8. About 5 days electrical usage in battery capacity (that can vary from 300ah to about 600 dependant on the gadgets you have on board) or adequate solar panels and wind generation to keep batteries topped up.
9. A well laid out galley with cooker with oven and grill and fridge/freezer

I hope these thoughts are of some use to you.
If I can be of any further service please send me a PM.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thankyou all very much for your advice,i will be looking on the computer later at the suggested boats,the only thing i am worried about is that if i decide to buy a a boat in the 35 ft region then it could be a little cramped when my family join me down there in the med,on the other hand a larger boat could be a hand full in the bad weather,dont forget i will be coming from Norway and theres always that "Bay of biscay " to get through,( alone)

[/ QUOTE ]

WE have decided that when we go afloat if the family want to come and visit they can find their own hotel, buying and maintaining a boat on the change you may need the extra space for a week here and there is crazy, whose retirement is it.
 
Thankyou so much "charles_reed",your reply is full of experiance,as are the other guys who have answered me,i will definately take notice of you people,as i said in my first letter ,i do have experiance of sailing,but not long haul trips,so to say,i am getting very excited as the time is getting closer for me to be buying and then starting out to the med,thank you all,(god i love you brits lol)
 
Hi peter,I see your point but my family will be joining me for a year or so,(wife and kids)my wife is a teacher and will be teaching the children whilst we are away,so i really dont think she will appreciate staying in a hotel,lol,,i really do need some one to cuddle up to at night,,
 
You have some conflict of interest: safe single hander v. room for wife and children! Might be a good idea to involve your wife in the choice of boat - if she is not comfortable aboard she might not enjoy her visits
 
Hi there Amari,yes i agree,my point is that i will be sailing alone from Norway to the med ,and then she will join me probably in Spain or even Portugal,then we will begin our adventure,i was a little concerned about the trip south if i have a bigger boat,but bigger boat means more comfort (or does it)smaller boat easier to handle alone but maybe less comfortable for living on,decisions decisions ,hahaha,
 
Hi Chris

As I suggested you have a range of views here. Now you have explained your requirements in more detail you show up our good friend "compromise". You have the classic conflicting requirements which no single boat will meet well. A boat that is suitable for single handed from Norway to the Western Med is less than ideal for family use in the Med, which means lots of motoring and mooring up in marinas or congested town quays.

As an example, a couple from Scotland were moored next to us in Corfu in their beautiful traditional long keel Swedish 33 footer. Lovely boat for the Irish Sea where they usually sailed. They were very envious of our Bavaria 37 (for living space and equipment) and admitted that if they had known what it was going to be like in the Med they would have bought a similar boat to ours, already in the Med for the same price as theirs.

The week before we were in Gaios on Paxos and an HR 42 moored alongside. He had 3 goes to get it right. He told me that although they had been cruising for 3 years, he still hated mooring stern to despite having a bow thruster.

So, if your main objective is family cruising in the Med, charter a boat for a week first and you will learn a lot about what is suitable for there. If you want to buy that sort of boat in Northern Europe and sail it down, it is perfectly possible but a bit more of a handful single handed.

On a practical note, if your plans are to leave at Easter next year, there is not much chance of getting a new custom or semi custom boat built in time, and even getting a used boat purchased and prepared would be a challenge. Many people take 6 months or even a year to prepare. You might therefore consider looking at buying a boat already in Spain or Portugal. There are always plenty for sale either because owners have got that far and decided they don't like it or can't afford it; or have had their dream and are selling up to return home. Have a look on a listings site such as www.Yachtworld.com (use the advanced search facility) and see how many are for sale at good prices.

My personal experience is that we chartered in the Med 10 years ago and liked it so much we bought our boat 7 years ago. We prefer the Med sailing and lifestyle to bashing around in the cold and wet northern waters, but still want to do the French canal journey - but in reverse.

Good luck whatever you decide.
 
Hi Tranona,the opsion of buying down there has been discussed,and i think that is a very good idea,save that journey alone all the way from Norway to the med,,i will take a look at the web site you recomend for buying boats down there a little later,thanks,
 
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