Little Russel, Swinge & Alderney Race

Sailfree

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Other post on "time to arrive at St PP" prompts question.

I frightened myself reading about how critical timing arrival with slack water was when I stated sailing about 9 years ago.

Accepting that we choose to sail in up to F4 or 5 I have now been through these places a number of times and apart from avoiding going against the tide have never had any problems.

I have been both at slack water, with the max tide (saw 14.4 kts on SOG through Alderney Race yet boat speed in light wind was only 4kts!) and have occasionally got it wrong and been slightly against the tide (once got it completly wrong and took 16hrs StPP to Cherbourg!) but apart from it being slightly disturbed water and an almost standing wave in the Swing once I have never witnessed why these pieces of water have such a reputation.

Have I been lucky or is it that once you avoid anything more than a F6 these bits of water are no problem?

Have you had any bad experiences in these places?
 

HoratioHB

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Not me, but once saw a very pretty 24 footer swept down the Swinge and onto rocks near the lighthouse, the Lifeboat took the family off. It was very windy (F7 ish) but I'm sure the tide was also a major factor. Spent some time contemplating a salvage attempt but common sense prevailed.
 

LadyInBed

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It's hard to see how anyone can get the timing wrong heading N out of St PP - You leave when you can first get your bum over the sill!

I picked this up from one of the CI YC websites:

Recommended Optimum Departure Times Leaving St PP for France / Channel Islands

Alderney:
3 hours before HW St PP (optimum) ; latest (Swinge) 1 hour before HW ; (Race) high water.
Return: 4 hours after HW Alderney. (40 mins later than St PP).

Jersey:
Low water St PP.
Return: 2 hours before HW St Helier - to get in across the sill. (best 1 hour after HW)

Carteret:
3½ hours before HW St PP. Can just get in with 30 mins to spare if 6 knots.
Return: 2½ hours after HW to catch the rising tide.

Dielette:
As for Carteret but deep water available 22 out of 24 hours.
Return; LW St PP

Iles Chausey:
3 hours after HW St PP and use the north/east side of Jersey.
Return : LW St Helier.

Granville:
As for Chausey.

St Malo:
HW St PP (it is all cross tides) but arrival with bassin lock working 2 hours before HW until 2 hours after).
Return: 3 hours before HW St Malo East about Minquiers or HW St M West about Minquiers

PS - Sorry if this has been said before, I haven't seen the other post.
 

Sailfree

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Mea Culpa but I claim Inexperiece in mitigation! Actually caused by

1. Timing it to arrive at the race at slack water before the tide tuned against us because I was so concerned about never going there whjen the tide is strong (whether with you or against you).

2. Not appreciating the correct passage plan speed for a Dufour 36 with F5 on the nose.

3. Not appreciating how long (and how many gallons!) 2 powerboats took to fill up at St PP before it was my turn and could then leave!

If I had not been so paranoid about the place and slack water it never would of happened!
 

Robin

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Going south down the race we time our arrival at about 30 minutes before HW Dover which is slackwater going south, you can use a back eddy inshore from Cherbourg to do that if coming from there. This allows enough tide at raggie speeds to go direct to Jersey as well as to St Peter Port.

Going north from St Peter Port (not feasible at raggie speeds direct from St Helier Jersey) you either leave as soon as you can clear the marina sill where the Le Mans start commences about 2.5hrs pre local HW or from outside we leave at about 3hrs pre local HW. Either of these will see you going through Alderney Race northbound with a lot of tide running, no problem at all in light winds or with wind and tide together and we saw 18kts SOG once on a very big tide, BS just 5kts!

However play with the Race or the Swinge in strong wind over tide conditions and you will see where it's reputation comes from! We once left St Peter Port in our old Westerly 33 with a forecast NE3-4, we like many others having waited for days of NE6-7 to drop. About half way up they put out a strong wind warning, up to NE7 and it came right on cue. We were motorsailing the Westerly dead into it and had 50hp if needs be, but my teeth couldn't stand the slamming and 4kts max was the best boatspeed. Then the search aircraft, helos and lifeboats appeared looking for a local, Jersey registered commercial fishing boat on route I believe from Alderney to Jersey, they later found the wreckage, but none of the crew. We lost our spinnaker pole which jumped out of it's deck mounts and cleared the lifelines without touching them but otherwise were OK and in fact we sailed once round Cap De La Hague the rest of the way to Cherbourg. The best advice, preached by Adlard Coles is if caught there to slow right down and just let the tide carry you though the worst of the waves.

The Swinge has standing waves at certain times of the tide and these are best avoided and are a must avoid in wind over tide especially. There is another hazard in the Swinge going north which is the very strong tide set towards the reefs on the west side, that is not a place to lose engine power or if under sail in light winds, and certainly not the place to pick up one of the many pot lines.

North of Alderney Race and in the Channel proper there is still a very strong tide set going NE on the flood tide which can kick up nasty seas for up to 10mls offshore if against the wind so it isn't just a very localised patch either.
 
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[ QUOTE ]
I frightened myself reading about how critical timing arrival with slack water was when I stated sailing about 9 years ago.

...

but apart from it being slightly disturbed water and an almost standing wave in the Swing once I have never witnessed why these pieces of water have such a reputation.

[/ QUOTE ]
The swmbo was experiencing Channel Island sailing for the first time last week and despite my best endeavours to talk-up the "exciting" waves ahead, she was distinctly underwhelmed.

She now suspects that pilot guide compilers are wimpy little men prone to huge exaggeration.
 

Sans Bateau

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[ QUOTE ]
She now suspects that pilot guide compilers are wimpy little man prone to huge exaggeration.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same bloke did the one for the approach to Chichester Harbour!
 

Sans Bateau

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[ QUOTE ]
If it was Adlard Coles pilot, I was very annoyed to find the white line showing the route in was missing from the water when we first went there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah! Yes. The harbour conservancy only put the white line out weekends and Bank hols, cost cutting you understand! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

billmacfarlane

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I left Guernsey a tad later than I should have, heading overnight to Chi, with the tide already running against a forecast of NW5/6. At the top of the Little Russel my speed fell from 7 kn to 3 kn for about 20 minutes in the overfalls. Apart from that trip was superb. I also kept well of Cap de la Hague. The worst overfalls I've met were near La Corbiere, after leaving St Helier, with about 1 hours tide with me against a W5/7. Totally, totally evil sea. Motoring into it I could only make 1 kn, and I had to turn back.
 

boatmike

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Don't be lulled into complacency. With wind over tide on spring tides in a F6 both the Alderney race and Swinge can be a bad place to be. Confucius he say " young man who poke sleeping tiger in eye with sharp stick never grow old"
 

brianhumber

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Re: Little Russel, Swinge & Alderney Race and Ortac!!

First trip to CI left StPP in fog, somehow found the Ortac channel ( this was before GPS etc) and whitewatered and white knuckled it to Alderney in nothing more than a F4. Taught me a lot about how little I knew. Always treated these waters and weather with great respect ever since.

Going South If its blowing say SW 4/5 I leave Alderney a couple of hours before slack so I get wind with tide, you have flat water then and still get through the swinge at around 4kts through the water in 2 to three tacks.
 

duncan

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yep - with plenty of speed available but not being overly happy in large standing or breaking waves we treat the area with the same respect but for different reasons.

big tides and even the slightest wind against on top of a residule swell can make for really confused seas from nowhere.

generally I can dodge around in the swinge and avoid the bad bits on the ebb - harder on the flood at the top.

ortac is kinder

alderney race on the flood has such a large area of confused sea it's a real pain

West of the casquettes on the other hand is usually a lot more relaxed!
 
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