Lines Leading aft £

[Bellinos]

Hello all.

I’m looking for some advice. I am interested in a 34ft yacht that appears to be in good shape but doesn’t have lines leading to the cockpit. I am planning on quite a bit of solo sailing but have never solo sailed needing to move to the mast to reef lower or raise.

If I go ahead with this I need to think about a budget for the work. I won’t be doing myself.

Has anyone had this done in the last few years that can give me an idea of cost?

Thank you

 

[dgadee]

Yes, twice. And more expensive than I first imagined. I went with new clutches, though, and that certainly upped the price. I have just put 12 on the new to me boat (6 each side). Not so expensive are the organisers to take the ropes back on the correct path.

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Just wondering if you have suitable winches to take the lines back.

 

[dgadee]

Currently just the original non tailing but those will be replaced over the winter. On the other boat I have 16st winches. Awkward to solo sail without self tailers.

 

[Tranona]

Just doing it and would echo the comment in post#2 - far more than you would imagine.. Off course depends on how many lines you are taking back, but the basic hardware for each line, turning block and clutch £90, mounting for turning blocks £90 each side, organiser £40 each side, rope based on 30m each £50 based on buying in bulk, 16ST winches £600 each. Fastenings £50, days labour £400.

So 6 lines, 3 each side around £2700, with of course the winches being almost half that.

 

[geem]

Hello all.

I’m looking for some advice. I am interested in a 34ft yacht that appears to be in good shape but doesn’t have lines leading to the cockpit. I am planning on quite a bit of solo sailing but have never solo sailed needing to move to the mast to reef lower or raise.

If I go ahead with this I need to think about a budget for the work. I won’t be doing myself.

Has anyone had this done in the last few years that can give me an idea of cost?

Thank you

Why not try it and see how you get on with reefing at the mast before you spend something like £2500/3000 converting. We love the reefing at the mast and wouldn't consider changing it but our boat is 10ft longer so more stable, high guardwires, big granny bars.

 

[Sea Change]

We converted our first (27ft) boat, but it was a DIY job. Used the old sheet winches which had become surplus following an upgrade.
Clutches are expensive, but you can minimise the number you need if you think about it carefully- e.g. you don't need one for the halyard because it's always the last line you pull, so it can just stay on the winch. I think the topping lift just went to a cleat.
I was surprised at the amount of friction in the resulting setup and would definitely suggest ball raced blocks.

 

[Sandy]

We converted our first (27ft) boat, but it was a DIY job. Used the old sheet winches which had become surplus following an upgrade.
Clutches are expensive, but you can minimise the number you need if you think about it carefully- e.g. you don't need one for the halyard because it's always the last line you pull, so it can just stay on the winch. I think the topping lift just went to a cleat.
I was surprised at the amount of friction in the resulting setup and would definitely suggest ball raced blocks.

What happens when you need that winch for another line?

Asking for a friend as I have every line going through a clutch.

 

[Bellinos]

Just doing it and would echo the comment in post#2 - far more than you would imagine.. Off course depends on how many lines you are taking back, but the basic hardware for each line, turning block and clutch £90, mounting for turning blocks £90 each side, organiser £40 each side, rope based on 30m each £50 based on buying in bulk, 16ST winches £600 each. Fastenings £50, days labour £400.

So 6 lines, 3 each side around £2700, with of course the winches being almost half that.

Wow, yes I agree more than I thought! So it seems winches are the major cost. I’ll have a close look when I view but I believe there are winches in the cockpit each side although I don’t think self tailing.

 

[Bellinos]

Why not try it and see how you get on with reefing at the mast before you spend something like £2500/3000 converting. We love the reefing at the mast and wouldn't consider changing it but our boat is 10ft longer so more stable, high guardwires, big granny bars.

I certainly would try. I like the idea of less clutter in the cockpit but it’s good to know how much if so as if I can’t manage I wouldn’t want to waste a season saving which of course would take longer once a boat owner

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Rather than covert to cockpit lines, spend the money on a good autopilot for tiller or wheel. If you are reasonably agile and fit, then reefing at the mast on a 34ft boat should not be problematic.

I sail a 41' yacht and all halyards and reefing pendents are at the mast. My boat came with granny bars at the mast, a first for me, and I think they are a great aid to safety, so I would consider set. However, not necessary and the all of the sub 36' boats I have sailed did not have them were reefed at the mast.

Give it a go, see how you get on. A tip, write down the reefing steps, point by point, in detail, then practise, adjust, refine. Soon you will not regret saving the money.

 

[Bellinos]

Just wondering if you have suitable winches to take the lines back.

I’ll check, the photos show 2 winches in the cockpit but they are both covered. What constitutes a suitable winch?

 

[johnalison]

Rather than covert to cockpit lines, spend the money on a good autopilot for tiller or wheel. If you are reasonably agile and fit, then reefing at the mast on a 34ft boat should not be problematic.

I sail a 41' yacht and all halyards and reefing pendents are at the mast. My boat came with granny bars at the mast, a first for me, and I think they are a great aid to safety, so I would consider set. However, not necessary and the all of the sub 36' boats I have sailed did not have them were reefed at the mast.

Give it a go, see how you get on. A tip, write down the reefing steps, point by point, in detail, then practise, adjust, refine. Soon you will not regret saving the money.

There is a considerable difference between 34 ft and 41 ft. A smaller boat is more suited to cockpit control lines and, as said, less stable, and involving more stress if going to the mast. I have gone to the mast on boats of 22' upwards since 1970s and wouldn't willingly go back to it, even in my 34. There may be some boats that are unsuited to aft-led lines but if it is possible it will be a couple of thousand well spent. It has been quite normal for us to set out without a preparatory reef, because it is so easy to take one in if needed. I dare say that it can be done as quickly at the mast, but the business of attaching oneself to the jackstays and making one's way forwards is just another thing I can do without on a small boat. I presume that a solo sailor is going to have an autopilot in any case.

 

[doug748]

I certainly would try. I like the idea of less clutter in the cockpit but it’s good to know how much if so as if I can’t manage I wouldn’t want to waste a season saving which of course would take longer once a boat owner

It can depend a good deal on the boat type.

I have always reefed at the mast but, my boat is a very steady platform, directionally stable and masthead rigged with a small main. I actually reef the main so infrequently the matter is not worth consideration.
Boats with large mains, possibly fractionally rigged with fin keels and spade rudders are another matter and will need far more intervention.
Personal fitness is also a factor, singlehanding is hard work, esp if you are coasting and moving on each day or so.

I must admit I also hate the clutter in the cockpit. I have the spinnaker gear plus port and starboard preventers * which is quite enough. As for self tailing winches, I have never thought they merit the cost, even with my large genoa.

* Cockpit, permanently rigged (or set to be easily rigged) gybe preventers are a top tip for sailing alone.

.

 

[st599]

Wow, yes I agree more than I thought! So it seems winches are the major cost. I’ll have a close look when I view but I believe there are winches in the cockpit each side although I don’t think self tailing.

Are the sails ready for single line reefs, or do they have sewn in cringles to go over a rams horn?

You may need to get the sail modified too. (One boat I sail has a cringle on first reef then 2 further single line reefs back to the cockpit)

 

[ithet]

I have done this on a boat with some lines led back but added extra lines including reefing pennants to cockpit clutches. One of the biggest issues is how the lines go around blocks at base of mast and onward to the organiser - I had to add some blocks and a mounting system for my reef lines. Some boats have fixed blocks in the mast base and sometimes these are not angled right to allow a single organiser to be used, so an extra one is needed to create enough "turn". I made cardboard templates of the organisers and clutches to check out the rope runs.

 

[Refueler]

Hello all.

I’m looking for some advice. I am interested in a 34ft yacht that appears to be in good shape but doesn’t have lines leading to the cockpit. I am planning on quite a bit of solo sailing but have never solo sailed needing to move to the mast to reef lower or raise.

If I go ahead with this I need to think about a budget for the work. I won’t be doing myself.

Has anyone had this done in the last few years that can give me an idea of cost?

Thank you

First question ? Do you have tiller / wheel pilot to steer the boat while working the sails ? Without that - its not fun.

I have two seagoing boats ... one with lines led back ... other at mast.
I still need a guy at mast with the lines led back boat ... to sort out the inevitable cocked mainsail slider or line ... dropping main - still needs someone at mast ....

 

[dgadee]

Yes, friction! I had to go from 12mm halyards to 10mm.

 

[B27]

Some of the lines you could use 'Jammers rather than clutches, reducing the cost to about £30 per line.
It's possible to share jammers for some functions, e.g. if you're unlikely to want the spinnaker at the same time as the second reef.

Doing everything at the mast sometimes means you need to be on auto pilot for a long time, so you need more sea-room to get the sails up.
Also, I think one should have at least half a plan for the auto pilot failing.

Maybe think through the kind of trips/passages you will do, how important might it be to have quicker access to the strings?
I think it makes a big difference on a small boat doing coastal hops and trips around the bay, not so much on a big boat doing multi-day passages.

Don't forget the cost new longer halyards etc.

 

[Slowboat35]

Adapting one's reefing technique may help too. I always hove-to to reef my boat so no matter the weather it was always a calm, controlled environment. I don't see the need for the complication, expense and unnecessary extra risk of the inevitable jams that are added with lines led aft on a boat that will heave-to nicely, and there are few that can't.