light wind genoa without a stay ?

[simonfraser]

using dyneema halyard and luff rope, could i get the luff tight enough to set it right in up to 20 aparent ?

plenty of winch / elbow power, so it should be ok, wire stay only required in high winds ??

 

[Ludd]

using dyneema halyard and luff rope, could i get the luff tight enough to set it right in up to 20 aparent ?

plenty of winch / elbow power, so it should be ok, wire stay only required in high winds ??

Why not use the money to fit a detachable forestay instead of spending it on dyneema?

Taken to just abaft the furler you could then use a variety of hanked sails,light or heavy.

 

[Twister_Ken]

It's what's done with the various 'code' sails, except they aren't flown hard on the wind. I suspect that no matter how tight you try and set the luff on the wind it'll fall away and put a big chord in the sail = heeling & leeway.

 

[simonfraser]

light wind genoa is going to be half way along on the bowsprit, so don't fancy hanking that on ;-)

wonder how tight the luff needs to be . . . .

 

[William_H]

Light wind genoa

I think it well worth a try. Just how close to the wind you can get it will be a question but I think it woulld be very useful anyway. Spectra/Dynema can be winched on pretty tight although it certainly stretches more than wire . The excessive camber given by a sagging luff can always be reduced by cutting the luff with a concave curve to allow for the sag. The problem then being that the camber will be right for stronger winds and too little for really light winds.
Incidentally I have always been negative to furling jibs. I find it intriguing that people are going to additional forestays for hank on jibs as well. I have only hnk on and find them really efficient. olewill

 

[tillergirl]

You need a downhaul. Rig a lightish 4 to 1 tackle on the bowspirit to the tack. For some reason I've never understood you get better tension downhauling than uphauling.

 

[Edwin]

using dyneema halyard and luff rope, could i get the luff tight enough to set it right in up to 20 aparent ?

plenty of winch / elbow power, so it should be ok, wire stay only required in high winds ??

I have sailed thousands of miles downwind like that. Nothing special used to haul the luff up tight, other than the winch handle! Frequently I use it boomed out with the 'furling' genoa boomed out on the other side without the main up - in the Atlantic and Pacific and the 'gap' between the furling Genoa and the unattached genoa would only be a few inches to a foot at the widest.

I also used to have a removable forestay but ended up never using it.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Paw Paw - downwind certainly, but upwind?

 

[Edwin]

Paw Paw - downwind certainly, but upwind?

Nope! 65hp perkins helps!

 

[flaming]

using dyneema halyard and luff rope, could i get the luff tight enough to set it right in up to 20 aparent ?

plenty of winch / elbow power, so it should be ok, wire stay only required in high winds ??

20 apparent (why do people talk in apparent, it's meaningless unless we know how fast your boat is?) - about 15 true...? is probably a big ask. And to be honest, probably also not necessary.

Ask yourself what you want the sail for. If it's a light wind sail then it needs to have a wind ceiling much lower than that, otherwise it will have to be built too heavy to be any good in actual light winds. And frankly, if your current jib is not powerful enough in 15kts true, then you have other problems to address first!
I would be looking for a wind ceiling of about 10-12 kts TRUE. Ideally less. This will allow your sailmaker to build a propper light sail, with a tensionable luff that will take you to windward in light airs, and reach in medium winds.

Twister Ken is right that the "code" sails are not normally used upwind by race boats. This is not actually because of the material, or tensioning requirements. But these sails are built as a way of being able to build a great big jib, which measures as a spinnaker. This means they have to be just too deep to be effective to windward in anything more than a couple of knots True.

There is no reason that, for cruising, a sailmaker couldn't build a sail with a cut that would really work upwind. If you race it would have to be declared as a jib though, and would crucify your rating.

Oh, and if setting from a bowsprit - make sure it can take the load. I have seen the aftermath of a J boat that decided to set a code zero from their carbon bowsprit with no extra support. It was in less than 10 kts of wind and it folded upwards like a matchstick. And I've seen those bowsprits survive 30+ kts of wind with big spinnakers...

 

[simonfraser]

flaming, 15 true, i'd be doing 10knots cog at least, 25 aparent.

"I would be looking for a wind ceiling of about 10-12 kts TRUE. Ideally less. This will allow your sailmaker to build a propper light sail, with a tensionable luff that will take you to windward in light airs, and reach in medium winds. "

that sounds good advice

not racing, so don't care about the ratings.

i fly a big code zero off the end of the pole, not broken (yet) which is excelent for downwind sailing.

the current genoa is not powerfull enough to drive me upwind in 10 true and more importantly not powerfull enought in low winds to balance the main. i've go to spill wind from the main with 10 true or less . . . .