Lifting Vs Fixed keels

[steviewhitts]

Hello again,

I have the option of going for a bilge keel or lifting keel boat when I purchase something over the winter - moorings and cruising dictate that I can dry out.

Does anyone have experience good or bad with lifting keels i.e do the keel housings get clogged with gunk etc ??
How well does this sort of boat lie when taking the bottom - keel up ??
Any help would make the decision a lot easier

Steviewhitts

 

[graham]

All depends on what you dry out on.In soft mud either will dry ok.Drop keels which completely retract into the hull are prone to mud being forced into the case as the boat settles in the mud.Eventually it can jam the board.

Drop keelers which have a ballast piece attatched to the end of the drop keel which remains outside the hull dont tend to get mud in the case as the ballast part blocks the hole(eg Anderson 22 like mine)Boats like this do however need short drying legs to dry out level on hard sand

Personally I like dropkeel yachts for their performance and ability to reduce draft if you do touch bottom unintentionally.A bilge keeler can be difficult if you ground unintentionally as heeling the boat increases the draft.

If you regularily dry out on hard bottoms when away cruising or on your moorings a bilge keeler will be easier.

 

[Guest]

We have a 25' Norfolk Smuggler, which has what seems to be a pretty ideal arrangement of a large, wide iron external ballast keel through which a steel centreplate drops or pivots. Draft "plate-up" is about 3', and draft and lateral resistance "plate down" is enough to give surprisingly good performance for a heavy gaff cutter. In three seasons we have never had a problem with the plate becoming bunged up despite numerous beachings on (sorry, in) mud or on sand. In mud the boat settles level and secure; on sand we use aluminium legs (London Yacht Leg Co.), which are superb. The shallow draft allows us to run up a beach as the tide falls, the legs are clipped on within minutes and you can then jump off and wade comfortably to make final adjustments to the legs if in the mood to settle absolutely level, or use the pre-set settings if you know the beach is level. Would hate to have the worry of a deep keel if intent on coastal cruisong and creek crawling, and we pass an awful lot of bilge keelers when sailing (going the same way!)

 

[LORDNELSON]

We sail a Southerly which has a swing keel and have owned her for about a year. Whilst she is normally kept afloat we do dry out in creeks, harbours etc., so far no problems with mud etc., bunging up the swing keel and none I have heard from other Southerly owners (there is a very strong owners association). Southerlys sit upright so long as the bottom is reasonably plane and do not require legs - they sit on a casting which has the slot for the swing keel cut through it. I think the smallest one now built is about 10 metres long but you can see details on the website www.northshore.co.uk. They sail better than most bilge keelers that I have met/sailed against and of course if you do inadvertantly run aground it is easy to raise the keel and move off - can be much more difficult in a bilge-keeler.

 

[Bergman]

Stevie

I have sailed a Parker 31 for several years and find the ideal solution.

Keel down has performance to compare with the best, stiff powerful and beautifully balanced. A lovely boat to sail, which in my experience bilge keelers aren't

Keel up 2ft draft settles easily on the wing keel sits happily on mud or sand or anything else. Sits with hull slightly clear of bottom, weight taken on the wing.

Hydraulics and electrics do the work, very reliable. The keel wedges into position so no flapping about bangs or clunks. Nothing gets into the keel box so no problems with clogging up.

I have only sailed 2 bilge keelers and didn't like either of them. One was a Fulmar which scared the pants off me it slammed so much. As for taking the ground, they all look as if they want to do the splits, there must be some very high loads transmitted to the hull.

Hope this helps

 

[Guest]

The answer lies in what you want to do, how often you'll dry out and what is the likely bottom type that you will dry out on. Many lift-keel boats still have about 2-3ft stub under the hull causing possible 'laying-over' when dry - if on hard ground or shallow mud. Deep mud and she will sit very happy.
The Bilge-keeler gets a lot of knocking from many boaters, I believe often unfairly.
I own a lift-keeler in Latvia - twin lifting plates, draft up is about 18", plates down about 4ft, I also own a fin keeler in Estonia .... no changes there ! and a bilge-keeler in UK. Out of all of them the fin keeler sails best, but she is a racer anyway. The Bilge Keeler then comes second, even though its a motor-sailer !!!!, last comes the twin lifting job - Polish built !

For general cruising and no racing - the bilge keeler is the answer, unless you can afford / find a flush bottom lift-keel job.
For cruising and limited club regattas etc. then its the lift-keel, but note the bottom for mooring etc.
For cruising and more serious stuff ..... its the fin.

So I would a) consider the bottom type that you will find yourself grounding on / in, b) what type of sailing you want - slow cruise, shallow rivers / beaching etc. or more serious speed orientated ..... c) how much money you have !!!!!

Lots to think about !!

 

[brianhumber]

Depends on your needs. I choose a Sadler 45 after fixed fin yachts because I wanted a large fast boat but still be able to creep up rivers, sail down canals in Holland or dry out on the beach. These are the pros. Cons are additional maintenance of the hydraulics and keel rollers/rubbing plates. For me Pros far outweigh cons.
Take your time over selection, don't buy the first boat you want and good sailing.

 

[quaelgeist2]

I sail a Feeling 720, 25ft with a casrt iron stub keel plus a 3 ft center-lplate pivoting out. Berthed on the Medway she sat on the soft mud twice a day w/o any problem for two seasons (the outboard in a well complained more ...)

After some warm days w/o use during summer, occasionally, it took a few minutes to have the passing wather soften the mud enough to drop the center board, but that was it.

The Feeling can stand on hard grounds on its stub keel, with two "beach-legs" keeing it upright.

I would always tend to a lifting keel when sailing in areas with shallow parts - currently we sail her on the Ijsselmeer in Holland as well as the islands off the Dutch coast and the draft of 3ft with the center board up allows all channels, short cuts , etc.

regards
christian

NB if you are interested in that boat in particlar, I am currently considering selling to get a bigger one (with a lifting keel again) - just mail me christian@quaelgeist.com

 

[charles_reed]

"Lifting keels" tend to cover a number of different concepts.

The external ballast keel with centreboard is the most common, especially in the States. This gives you a shallow draft and the benefit of a deep draft when going to windward, but means you need legs to dry out flat.

A development of this where you have the ballast bonded into the bottom of the boat and a retractable centreboard - typical of a dinghy Offers you the ability to dry out flat and to minimise draft.
This only appears to be feasible for boats of up to about 30'.

Finally you have the true lifting keel - ie the ballast is hung on the lifting member - as explified by the Parker 32.5. This is probably the ultimate sophistication allowing a lightweight boat with a high righting moment.
Mine is the original 31', which I've had for 11 years - there are few 36' which can outsail her, certainly to windward, and she's frequently covered more than 10 miles in the hour through the water.
However the keel adds about £5K to the cost of the boat, it does add an additional requirement for maintenance and certain difficulties in antifouling.

There is no doubt in my mind that the lift-keel concept offers far greater performance than the fixed bilge keel and a lesser floating depth, at a greater cost in both capital and running cost terms. Both are equally effective for drying moorings.

 

[Neal]

One point about bilge keels....

they can be really awkward , and most unnsalubrious, if you ever want to scrape the antifouling off.

 

[steviewhitts]

Thanks for all the posts folks - they are all very interesting and will help me make the decision when the time comes. I have seen a nice Jaguar 25 that fits the bill so who knows - lifting keels may be the way forward ......... and sideways and backwards !!
cheers
steviewhitts.

 

[graham]

Re: One point about bilge keels....

This is a very good point.Crawling under the boat to get behind the bilge keels for scrubbing or antifouling is a very unpleasant job.

Also in the area I sail we often dry out on sloping mud river banks either at anchor or tied to the end of a pontoon.In this situation a bilge keeler will crank over to an uncomfortable angle until the tide returns whereas a fin or dropkeel er can usually be encouraged to dry out fairly level on a sloping riverbank by making the boat lean towards the bank as she dries out.

 

[LORDNELSON]

Re: One point about bilge keels....

a few years ago a club member was anti-fouling his bilge-keeler (a smallish one) between the keels and he passed out from the effect of the anti-fouling fumes in the relatively airless space between the keels. Luckily we noticed what had happened, dragged him out and sent him off to hospital in an ambulance - he was quite ill.