Liferafts

[cristan]

I just thought to share this story. We have a Westerley Berwick which we cruised for many years in the Bristol Channel before heading south to the Med. 'Med till dead' as they say. For years we had a liferaft that we kept near the mast when active on the boat and stored below on the cabin floor when we departed for the winter. In 2001, i decided to get it checked out in Barcelona. For the first time i was able to see the liferaft inflated by a service company. Impressive indeed ! The liferaft inflated instantly to its full x4 man configuration which gave me hope. Unfortunately, by the next day it had partially deflated. What was more concerning was that when i talked to the technician who upended the liferaft and then 'tore the floor off'. Apparently, the glue that fused the floor to the side tubing had given up the ghost. So... if we had been in an emergency where our boat was sinking, we would have thrown the liferaft overboard as a 'final hope of safety' and disappeared through the bottom when we jumped in. Scary. Now that i am in need of buying another ..possibly 2nd hand liferaft... i wonder how many years old it should be from the year of manufacture to perform adequately.

 

[Tranona]

I just thought to share this story. We have a Westerley Berwick which we cruised for many years in the Bristol Channel before heading south to the Med. 'Med till dead' as they say. For years we had a liferaft that we kept near the mast when active on the boat and stored below on the cabin floor when we departed for the winter. In 2001, i decided to get it checked out in Barcelona. For the first time i was able to see the liferaft inflated by a service company. Impressive indeed ! The liferaft inflated instantly to its full x4 man configuration which gave me hope. Unfortunately, by the next day it had partially deflated. What was more concerning was that when i talked to the technician who upended the liferaft and then 'tore the floor off'. Apparently, the glue that fused the floor to the side tubing had given up the ghost. So... if we had been in an emergency where our boat was sinking, we would have thrown the liferaft overboard as a 'final hope of safety' and disappeared through the bottom when we jumped in. Scary. Now that i am in need of buying another ..possibly 2nd hand liferaft... i wonder how many years old it should be from the year of manufacture to perform adequately.

Welcome

You don't say how old the liferaft was not whether it had been serviced. In those days the normal service interval was one year. Now it is more commonly 3 years with a maximum life of 15 years. Liferafts are not "fit and forget" items and servicing is approx 25-30% of the purchase cost. Only makes sense to buy one if you think you really need it and are prepared to pay the servicing cost. Many people who only need one for short periods say a summer cruise hire. Used only make sense if they have an up to date certificate and are priced correctly in line with their expected life and service requirements.

 

[Gsailor]

Yes, it would be good to know what year the raft was made.

Glue, seam welding etc have all changed over the years.

I owned a WII life jacket that I bought from a military scarp yard.

It was designed to be permanently inflated.

It was inflated, therefore when I bought it (canvas type material in khaki) over 25 years ago.

I gave it to a WII enthusiast.

It is inflated to this day- 80 years later.

I do not believe modern tech is designed in a similar manner as the tech I have just mentioned- why would a company do so?

They want us to renew / service / dispose and buy again - very sad - money, money, money driven.

I wonder if an original sample of Bakelite ‘plastic’ has deteriorated since it was produced? I do not know.

I do think standards have slipped - and I understand obsolescence used to be built in to certain products (cars e. g.) so consumers would have to fork out.

Not my way of doing things or thinking.

I carried 3 life rafts. Different makes. All to be deployed at once if needed - increased chance of one working by 3x is what I figured.

 

[srm]

When the commercial code of practice for yachts was being discussed the MCA wanted 2 x life rafts each with a capacity for the maximum crew. The same as the rules for fishing and other commercial vessels. There is a reason for this, based on experience.

Must say I am very curious to know when the OP's life raft was made and what its service history was. Part of the service is a thorough inspection of the fabric.

 

[Kelpie]

When we upgraded to a new life raft we kept the old one in place. It's not doing any harm, and you just never know...

 

[Refueler]

When the commercial code of practice for yachts was being discussed the MCA wanted 2 x life rafts each with a capacity for the maximum crew. The same as the rules for fishing and other commercial vessels. There is a reason for this, based on experience.

Must say I am very curious to know when the OP's life raft was made and what its service history was. Part of the service is a thorough inspection of the fabric.

Actually not strictly correct ......

Liferaft capacity should be 100% of the number of persons onboard if the liferafts can be shifted to either side on the ship's deck. If they cannot be shifted, the liferafts must also have 100% capacity on either side (Total capacity of 200%)

Therefore a yacht would be fine to have one L/R capacity for its designed crew number ....

 

[Devon Boy]

When the commercial code of practice for yachts was being discussed the MCA wanted 2 x life rafts each with a capacity for the maximum crew. The same as the rules for fishing and other commercial vessels. There is a reason for this, based on experience.

Must say I am very curious to know when the OP's life raft was made and what its service history was. Part of the service is a thorough inspection of the fabric.

Was this for none Cat 0 ? I know that’s still a requirement for that catagory.

As a side note your most economical decision on purchasing a life raft now would be to buy a NEW ISO raft in a canister ( 3 year service life) after the first service it then becomes 2 year service life. This is a good point to sell within a year if this service as it then becomes annual. You will recover a massive amount of your initial purchase price by buying / selling in this way.

 

[Kwik Decision]

Was this for none Cat 0 ? I know that’s still a requirement for that catagory.

For cat 0 (unlimited) and cat 1 (150 NM from safe haven) you need N + 1 life rafts, so if one fails, there is still sufficient life raft capacity for all on board. I think these need to be carried on deck, with hydrostatic release devices. For cat 2 (60 NM from safe haven) you only need sufficient life raft capacity for the number of people on board, and these can be stored in a locker if desired. Most yachts for charter around the UK will be coded to cat 2.

 

[Graham376]

As a side note your most economical decision on purchasing a life raft now would be to buy a NEW ISO raft in a canister ( 3 year service life) after the first service it then becomes 2 year service life. This is a good point to sell within a year if this service as it then becomes annual. You will recover a massive amount of your initial purchase price by buying / selling in this way.

I assume you are quoting service intervals for a particular make of raft.

Our last one, a Plastimo Offshore, had 3 year service intervals until we binned it at 20 years, as does the SeaSafe Self-righting one we have now.

 

[srm]

IIRC the requirement for two rafts was in one of the first drafts being circulated for discussion, along with watertight doors with sills and some other impractical ideas.

 

[Devon Boy]

I assume you are quoting service intervals for a particular make of raft.

Our last one, a Plastimo Offshore, had 3 year service intervals until we binned it at 20 years, as does the SeaSafe Self-righting one we have now.

Nope any ISO rated raft. It may vary if being used on an un-coded vessel possibly.

 

[Daydream believer]

Nope any ISO rated raft. It may vary if being used on an un-coded vessel possibly.

My Seago iso liferaft is 3 years up to 12 years then annually thereafter.The same applied to my last one which was an Ocean one. I researched other makes which were similar.
I think that you need to check your statement & clarify exactly which standard you are quoting - ie commercial, charter, domestic etc & also which manufacturer
Your claim is highly misleading & just puts false info out there, which may adversely affect someone's decision whether or not to buy

 

[Sandy]

Rent never buy. Much easier with servicing and are are likely to have a new life raft every year.

 

[Daydream believer]

Rent never buy. Much easier with servicing and are are likely to have a new life raft every year.

Only economical for short term sailors & those that have planned holidays. No use for someone like me who might decide to sail up the coast to Harwich, then suddenly turn right & go cross channel on a whim.

 

[Kelpie]

Only economical for short term sailors & those that have planned holidays. No use for someone like me who might decide to sail up the coast to Harwich, then suddenly turn right & go cross channel on a whim.

Also not much use if you live out in the sticks, the return delivery cost is going to be in three figures. I know because I looked in to it!

 

[Refueler]

My Seago iso liferaft is 3 years up to 12 years then annually thereafter.The same applied to my last one which was an Ocean one. I researched other makes which were similar.
I think that you need to check your statement & clarify exactly which standard you are quoting - ie commercial, charter, domestic etc & also which manufacturer
Your claim is highly misleading & just puts false info out there, which may adversely affect someone's decision whether or not to buy

As far as I am aware - servicing for yachties LR's is as per manufacturer ?? With them also requiring Service Centres to cease servicing after xx years of age ?

 

[Graham376]

As far as I am aware - servicing for yachties LR's is as per manufacturer ?? With them also requiring Service Centres to cease servicing after xx years of age ?

In the case of our last raft, at 18 years it passed inspection but the advice was that it would be sensible to replace when service next due because there may possibly be degradation of seams due to age, which can't be spotted until they fail. No mention of mandatory refusal to service, just advice.

 

[Refueler]

In the case of our last raft, at 18 years it passed inspection but the advice was that it would be sensible to replace when service next due because there may possibly be degradation of seams due to age, which can't be spotted until they fail. No mention of mandatory refusal to service, just advice.

You were very lucky to have a service do that ...... but it does not change the fact manufacturers advise their service agents to not service after xx years .... commonly 15yrs.

 

[Refueler]

You only have to look on eBay at the number of 'expired' L/R's for sale .... to catch those unaware of the limitation. Or those who are willing to accept OOD L/R.

Its not so bad with a valise soft case L/R - at least you have a chance to check the L/R and geart - but a hard canister one is beyond non service centre capability.

 

[ylop]

I do not believe modern tech is designed in a similar manner as the tech I have just mentioned- why would a company do so?

I think it’s wrong to blame the companies; yes some will be 100% profiteering nonsense but the design is driven by purchaser preference. You can have this one which will still work in 80 years, is heavier, will no longer be fashionable or as comfortable as state of the art in 10 years, has a more robust design but will be harder to store, less likely to be worn, etc. and because of its design, materials, manufacturing methods, will cost twice as much or you can have cheaper, lighter, more practical, more comfortable, and when it no longer looks good in 10 years will do as a spare for another 10 years whilst you wear something newer…

I wonder if an original sample of Bakelite ‘plastic’ has deteriorated since it was produced? I do not know.

There was lots of Bakelite made and not that much has survived. Some of that is fashion but it did eventually age (depending on how/where it was stored). It’s a phenol formaldehyde resin and that chemistry is still used for certain niche applications - although injection moulding in ABS or similar has replaced it for a Lot of stuff - because the cost per part has got cheaper and it can be coloured to suit (but that stuff will last equally as long).

I do think standards have slipped - and I understand obsolescence used to be built in to certain products (cars e. g.) so consumers would have to fork out.

Might be true - but car design seems to move on without needing obsolescence - there’s still plenty of classics around if you want a less safe, uncomfortable ride, with things like points needing TLC, with the fuel economy of a tractor.

Not my way of doing things or thinking.

I carried 3 life rafts. Different makes. All to be deployed at once if needed - increased chance of one working by 3x is what I figured.

I’d rather spend my money to have confidence in one really good one than servicing 3 on a statistical hope - but I also wouldn’t have space for 3!

Its not so bad with a valise soft case L/R - at least you have a chance to check the L/R and geart - but a hard canister one is beyond non service centre capability.

The process used has always struck me as “not that complicated” and I’ve wondered whether some people diy? Presumably there’s something I’m missing or someone would have set up a non-manufacturer approved centre to undercut the big boys even if it could only service the leisure market.

Are the eBay ones as much about finding a way to dispose of them as actually making cash? Gas bottle, flares?, big and heavy, can imagine my local tip saying no.