Liferafts

boatmike

boatmike

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I have not carried one since I started sailing cats, especially as my boat is theoretically unsinkable and I carry a 3.1 metre rib fully inflated most of the time. However, with a lot of miles planned this year either single handed or short handed, I am thinking seriously about getting one. Please check out my thinking here and criticise freely.

1. While there are some good budget offshore ones on the market as reviewed recently in PBO with Seago coming out very well at under £500 I think the fact that they are not self righting rules them out. My thinking is that if in the water with an upturned liferaft I am probably going to find it difficult to right on my own.

2. For offshore rather than blue water I don't need a full SOLAS but do need a grab bag with well thought out contents at hand to supplement the less complete contents of a self righting ISO 9650-1 class self righting one. There is an advantage in fact as I can review the grab bag contents and update regularly without servicing the whole liferaft as I would have to do if it were SOLAS as all that stuff would be inside.

3. It's probably wrong to have too big a raft as for 1 or 2 persons a 4 man raft is OK, regardless of the fact that SOLAS don't recognise anything smaller than 6man. Probably 2 people in a 6 man would not actually be as stable ( people forming a large part of the ballast).

4. The fact that the floors of ISO 9650-1 rafts are foam and foil insulated rather than inflatable floors does not matter for channel use in summer months.

5. A canister will keep the raft in better nick that a valise.

In which case a self righting 4 man Seago in a canister at about £1000 seems to be the thing rather than fork out half as much again for a SOLAS or equivalent rated one.

What does the folorum think? Do I have that right?
 
Have you done the sea survival course?
I don't think a 4man should be too hard to right, in any conditions where the self righting would actually work, but I haven't tested this theory.
There are two paths to all this, either compliance to racing/chartering rules, or your own peace of mind.
Particularly with a cat, you are unlikely to sink.
My instinct is that any reasonable liferaft will be good enough, and spending money on aids to a) not needing it, and b) being found quickly, are higher up the list of priority for spending, than a better raft.
I'm interested to see what others think!, and I'm posting to stir the debate rather than claiming to know the answer.
Cheers,
 
I can't see the point in getting off, whatever happens, a large floating platform into a small rubber dinghy, sorry
 
I wonder how important self-righting really is?

Modern designs are well stabilised and if you use a drogue then I would have thought the likelihood of the liferaft turning over in the English Channel would be minimal.

However it is certainly a nice-to-have so if it doesn't mean you have to compromise on something else then why not.

You have missed one important consideration - and that is the method of entry into the liferaft. This used to be a great weakness of liferaft designs a few years ago. I would put that absolutely at the top of my list - if you can't get into it then it isn't going to do you that much good.
 
I would second LW395's suggestion to do a Sea Survival course. You get to practice getting into and righting liferafts, etc. You can discuss the different design considerations with the instructors, especially aspects such as only 2 in a raft and likelyhood of rolling.
David.
 
Have you thought of hiring - we worked out some time ago that hiring charges for a typical 6 months season is not a lot different to the cost of the raft written down over a 5 year life plus the annual servicing costs, (and you do not need to spend £1000 now). Add in a hired EPIRB for the longer trips. If you are cruising from UK and intend to return at the end of the season it might make sense. Have no connection oether than as a customer of long standing but Premium Liferaft Services might be worth talking to.
 
To answer posts so far.
1. I have not only done survival courses in the past but was unfortunate enough to have needed a life raft once in my youth when I was bolder than I am now. I have also done quite a bit of diving in the past which means I know how shock and hypothermia affect people in the water. I didn't mention such things as ease of entry because I take that for granted and all of those I would consider are excellent in that respect.
2. Being fairly unsinkable (don't want to put that to the test really) does not stop you having a fire or being run down.
3. Rafts that are self righting are primarily designed to inflate the right way up. Those that aren't can inflate inverted and I really don't think it would be easy to turn them over on your own. Once inflated most will hopefully stay the right way up because of the water ballast.
4. I am 65 and while fit, know my limitations. I can't do what I used to be able to do when I was 25 ( well not so easily or so often!)
 
I agree that £600 on a raft and £400 on a GPS EPIRB make more sense than £1000 on a raft alone. If you are going to need one of them, you'll almost certainly need the other!
 
Well its more like £1000 for a self righting raft and £400 for an EPIRB rather than £1700 for a top of the range raft actually but the principle is the same..
 
[ QUOTE ]
or makes a serious bid to sink!
Bigwow is probably riight until proven wrong by a ship!

[/ QUOTE ]

There would still be plenty of big pieces floating
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Hi Mike,
just a comment here.
Seago appears to have fallen out with the Liferaft servicing fraternity, and so I had to send mine back tothe factory. I was quoted 140 quid for the job, first service, 3 years old.
The blinkers charged me 220 quid for my 6 man canister, and I cannot seem to get it serviced anywhere else in the world.
For that reason, I shant be returning to Seago again.
 
Boatmike.

As you may well know I sail an Etap, designed and proven to be unsinkable, Oh yes there are some cynics who do not understand that some boats WILL float when flooded, but some, like yours and mine WILL!

I have just, today in fact (Friday) fitted a Seago £499 canister LR to Galadriel. The ONLY time I will ever have to use this raft is if the boat catches fire. No other reason, the boat WILL NOT SINK!

If I get hit by a large ship:

1 I should have been keeping a better watch
2 If it is a hard enough impact to break the boat in two, both halves will float, will I still be conscious, to launch a raft?
 
Jim,

My Seago 4-man canister was serviced by Ocean Safety via Mailspeed but the charge was nearly as much as for your 6-man - and that before Mailspeed's profit. Two services and you're approaching the cost of a new liferaft!

It does make you think more about Xjogger's hiring option - and no problem finding somewhere to keep it during the winter. /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Does anyone remember the two-man liferaft which was on the market about five years ago? Whatever happened to that? It was only around for a couple of months and then no sign.
 
Boatmike:
To me it looks like you have already decided what you want after carefull considerationof all options.

I would agree with your choice.

Luckily for me as my boat is an ex charter boat it came with Liferaft (Cannister type) It was checked last year (well exactly one year ago) so looks like I will need a service/check next week. It is one thing that I hope I wil never need, but I admit that I do like the fact that I have one.
 
Thanks for the tip Jim. When I spoke to Seago direct they said Cosalt were appointed to service their rafts but I don't know at what cost. I shall contact Cosalt direct after Easter and ask them. A general question though for other folorumites..... How much have you paid recently for servicing other makes?
 
Haven't finally decided yet Mike, just trying to decide how much I need to spend to get something that will work. Don't want to spend more than I need, but don't want to have one of those moments, in the faint chance that I might need it, of thinking "wish I had spent a bit more and got one that works!
 
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