Liferaft experience

[SteveGorst]

I am curious about liferafts and how long realistically one would have to survive in them if you had a epirb/plb and flares. Has anyone on the forum actual real experience of using a liferaft and how long did it take to get rescued. I am particularly interested in up to 50 miles offshore UK, Ireland, France rather than transatlantic. There are 1000's of members on this forum so someone must have actually used one?

 

[Tranona]

Best of luck finding anyone with that kind of experience as the number of liferafts that have been deployed by yachtsmen in the waters you are talking about can be counted on the fingers of your 2 hands in the last 20 years or so.

The best source of accounts of incidents involving rafts is the MAIB reports, both for leisure craft and also fishing boats. The latter have more incidents but not all are directly transferable to yachts.

Not all incidents are covered, but enough to give a wide range of experiences, mostly pretty horrible as you would expect. Resorting to a liferaft is an extremely rare event and not surprisingly there is little discernable pattern in the incidents.

 

[SteveGorst]

Thanks for that I'll go and have a look at those then. My own guess at the moment without any real life experience to compare it with is no more than an hour or two before the helicopter is overhead at the extreme. In most cases well less than an hour.

 

[Tranona]

"In most cases" is not based on reality because there have been so few cases. Remember taking to a raft is usually (sweeping statement!) a last resort in extreme conditions when all sorts of factors come into play.

Your one hour is a good estimate IF you are in direct contact with the coastguard IF the chopper is immediately tasked IF conditions are benign etc - but if reliant on say an EPIRB much longer than an hour. However if this was the situation, why would you want to take to the liferaft anyway? Boats do not instantly sink and if you are in sufficient control of the situation you would be ahead of the game and appropriate help would already have been tasked long before a liferaft becomes the only alternative.

Having said that you will find one example of an almost instant sinking where the crew took to the raft, but were not picked up because they lost VHF, until spotted by another boat.

You can imagine all sorts of scenarios but in reality almost all potential disasters are nipped in the bud, either by preventative action, efforts of the crew in dealing with the issue or early action from rescue services.

Having sampled a liferaft in the pool, I try to do everything possible to avoid ever being in a situation where using one in anger is necessary. That is I think what most people do as evidenced by the tiny number that actually have to do it.

 

[awol]

Thanks for that I'll go and have a look at those then. My own guess at the moment without any real life experience to compare it with is no more than an hour or two before the helicopter is overhead at the extreme. In most cases well less than an hour.

I don't think your question is limited to liferafts. Rather, the question is how long between a Mayday (however issued) and help arriving? Help may not necessarily be a helicopter, though - it could be another vessel tasked to attend.

 

[SteveGorst]

The admiral is keen to have a liferaft as she has more imagination than me and watches films like "All is Lost". With the type of sailing I do I am just wondering how long I will have to rely on it if the worst was to happen. We did cross the Channel this year and I reckon there were fishing boats and ships within 5 miles of us 99% of the time so I don't think we would be in it for long.

I have started reading the MAIB reports and it looks like your unintentional Gybe is the real killer and a liferaft wouldn't help with that. After that it seems to be keels falling off.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I think the emergency use of liferafts in the waters around the UK and across to Europe or Ireland is so rare that I’m not sure if there are any reliable statistics. The Fastnet was the last major test of them that I remember.
In 50 years of sailing on the South Coast, Irish Sea, Chanel Islands and northern Spain I don’t recall seeing a liferaft deployed or even heard a mayday on the vhf where one has been deployed.
On my last boat it sat on the deck for over 20 years, had it’s regular 3 year service and went with the boat when I sold her. After two services I got the service station to let me know when they were going to service it so I could actually see what was inside the canister and what I was paying for.
I have done the RYA survival at sea course so have righted an upturned liferaft and discovered the difficulty of getting into one, but never used one in reality.
SWMBO has advised me that she is not happy about me crossing to Ireland (from Wales) without a liferaft on my new boat, so I suppose I have to buy one, I do have this nagging feeling I could spen the money better elsewhere, but I think the liferaft will be bought to preserve the peace.
Regarding the OP, my guess is that a maximum of 1-2 hours of floating around in a liferaft would be about right in the Chanel where there is a high density of shipping or if you were particuarly unlucky maybe 5-6 hours in the Irish Sea where shipping is lighter, assuming of course your emergency signal had been recieved by someone.

 

[SteveGorst]

Yep it looks like I am going to have to buy one to keep the peace as well. Her real fear is night sailing and I suppose when you have imagination it must be pretty frightening to be careering through the waves into blackness. We can see ships and fishing boats that light up the sea for 100's of meters around them but its the imaginary containers and lobster pots that put the heebie jeebies up her.

 

[jamie N]

It's not quite the experience that the OP asked for, but on the number of Offshore survival courses that I've completed, I seem to recall that there was a minimum of 24hrs of water/'food' in the raft, which would easily sustain one within 50 miles. As others have stated, it's how swiftly the rescue services receive the signal from the raft that'll make the difference. Do you carry a PLB, or have a waterproof HH VHF? Probably, it'll be these which will have the greatest effect on the outcome?

 

[Praxinoscope]

Yep it looks like I am going to have to buy one to keep the peace as well. Her real fear is night sailing and I suppose when you have imagination it must be pretty frightening to be careering through the waves into blackness. We can see ships and fishing boats that light up the sea for 100's of meters around them but its the imaginary containers and lobster pots that put the heebie jeebies up her.

It’s my imagination that prevents me going to films like Perfect Storm etc. it’s bad enough on your own on watch at 03.00 without recalling all the sailing disater films you have seen.
Look upon the liferaft more as a comfort blanket than a piece of last resort safety equipment.

 

[Poey50]

Here's one account ...
https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/solo-
cruise-ended-
in-liferaft-65319

 

[Tranona]

That is a very good example of the complexity of survival situations and why it makes sense for a lone sailor going offshore should have a liferaft.

However even those of us here who sail in our waters and have vivid imaginations could not imagine such a thing happening to them!

 

[SteveGorst]

That's reassuring he was in the middle of the ocean and he was flown over in 5 hours and rescued in 8. I'm certainly not relying on the liferaft but as a safety blanket for SWMBO it should be effective.

 

[TQA]

Alain Berthelot survived for 69 days in a liferaft. I may have misspelt his name. I think there is a book. I think that may be the longest for a single survivor.

Read the Fastnet report for all the things that can go wrong with liferafts.

Make sure that your liferaft has some provision for getting in from the water. We had a liferaft day in my cruising community and it was surprisingly difficult to get into a liferaft [ two tube type ] from the water. About 40% of those who tried failed. This was in swimming costumes, in warm water and on your own.

 

[SteveGorst]

What do the panel think of these? Could get a bit cold me thinks....

https://www.force4.co.uk/force-4-life-cell-emergency-pod.html

 

[Tranona]

Bit OTT. The basic coastal liferaft is OK and has equipment in it appropriate to the short expected stay. Latest ISO rafts are a vast improvement on those in the Fastnet experience, although still not nice places to be. Many people have the extra equipment they want to take in a waterproof grab bag. Much of that is obvious but some is personal discretion.

 

[SteveGorst]

yes I saw a Youtube video of an exercise in a pool and it looked a really flimsy affair for getting in and out. It also had bits of string criss crossing through it and they said this was to keep you steady in the waves. Total b*ll*cks in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TycfnD4-A-E

But as a safety/comfort blanket for the skipper and assuming you would only be in it for an hour or so with satellite technology I will go along with it. And the chances that you will have to use it in anger are virtually nill going on the MAIB reports. If I was going across oceans I would be more enthusiastic....

 

[SteveGorst]

The emergency pod

I think they intend you to use it without a liferaft and just strap yourself to it. In British waters it will help the rescue services to find the bodies......

 

[LadyInBed]

The emergency pod

I think they intend you to use it without a liferaft and just strap yourself to it. In British waters it will help the rescue services to find the bodies......

All that safety kit sealed in it which will get wet if opened when in the water
Keep 'er 'appy and buy a raft, you're not required to deploy it!

 

[oz-1]

Hi Steve, i am sorry to say i had to deploy my liferaft, and only a few miles from my home port of Torquay. It was in 2002, my lovely partner Linda had not long passed away, we used to go every summer to France. I decided to take the boat across on my own. I left Torquay in the afternoon with a lovely breeze. This didn't last long though, the wind died and by the time it was dark i hadn't done many miles. At dawn the next day i was still this side of the west going shipping lane. For breakfast i used to have porridge and a cup of tea, cooked on my origo 2 burner stove. The burner with the kettle on it fired up straight away, but the one with the pan didn't, it was dry. Instead of turning the cooker off to refuel, i did the most stupid thing of my entire life. I got my gallon container of meths and thought i would just pour a bit in the cannister, what could go wrong! I forgot that just above the gauze in the cannister there is a small metal disc. The meths hit the disc and spalshed everywhere, the spilt meths cought light from the other cannister with the kettle on it. The flames travelled down the front of the cabinet and then the gallon container cought alite. I had both fire extinguishers and fire blanket, but now the fire had taken hold and i panicked. The galley at the time was up forward, so i went back to my small chart table and with my handheld vhf sent out a mayday. I was really lucky the Brixham coastguard ( now sadly gone ) picked up my signal immediately. The lady asked if i had a liferaft, and when i said yes, she said to get in it, which i did and looked on as my boat sailed on with smoke billowing out of the cabin. A new survey ship, the three counties ( on sea trials ) picked me up, after what seemed a long time to me, not too long afterwards. This accident was entirely my stupid fault and completely avoidable, but i am glad i had it. My boat, a 21foot homebuilt flicka was saved by Salcombe lifeboat and the fireboat. The interior was gutted but hull and deck survived. I have since restered her and been to France and Aldernay since. If your wife feels safer with a liferaft, get one, hoping that you will never need it. All the best.