Lifelines

[Trevj]

Before venturing out onto the wilder bits of sea around here, I intend to fit lifelines to my boat that I can clip onto as I move forward. The question is how are these best arranged?
Somewhere I read of lifelines being taken from a pad eye at the stern, outside everything to a light lashing to the shrouds at chest-height and coninuing on to a second strong pad eye at the bow.
I know that I would have to unclip at the shrouds but I would have a good hand hold there and should be safe. Should I be swept overboard (heaven forbid) I should be swept to the stern where I have a boarding ladder fixed and should be able to re-board without help.
Most boats I see have webbing fixed inboard of the shroudes and stanchions. This seems tidy but I envision the posiblity of getting tangled and being dragged alongside, posibly being unable to reboard.
Has anyone any experience of either of these two systems in a real MOB situation.
Thanks
Trevj



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Joe_Cole]

I've got mine between the shrouds and the stanchions...but I've not used them in anger so I can't tell you how they worked.

Joe

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Little_Russel]

You should never clip on to life-lines. Do you mean jack-stays? If so they should be fixed to through deck eye-bolts fore and aft. These should be fitted with strong backing plates. The webbing type line should run whichever way that you would walk forward so that you would not need to unclip at the shrouds.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...

 

[kingfisher]

From a padded eye on deck (in light weahter used for the downhaul of the spinakkerboom), inside the shrouds, to cleats 1m from transom.

1 m from transom, so in the event I fall overboard, I don't drag behind the boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Group of people on the pontoon: skipper is the one with the toolbox.
http://sirocco31.tripod.com

 

[arran]

I have arranged ours so that they start about 1 metre from the bow and stern in a way that means YOU DO NOT HAVE TO UNCLIP.

You will want to have them so that at any point you can lift them about 1 metre.

When I have used them in anger I walk holding the lifelines just above the point where they clip to the jackstays in a way that means the jackstays come to you and your life-lines do not get tangled.

If I have had to spend any length of time sorting out a problem in bad conditions I usually find a more rigid point to hank on to.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[RonC]

Maybe I have a different view on matters, but I set up my lines so that if I fall I cannot go over the side, but am held omn deck. This means a jackstay up the centre of the boat and two tethers of different lengths to allow for variation in the beam.
Must admit I've never tried it in anger!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Avocet]

Never used mine in anger either but they go inside the shrouds so I don't have to unclip. Good point about getting caught up rather than swept to the back though! I think I too would get caught up on the stanchion tops rather than get swept back in the situation you describe. That said, I've heard it is extremely difficult to get back on board in any kind of seaway - especially at the stern which might well be bucking out of the water some distance and crashing down on you. I try to keep the lifeline as short as possible on the jackstay so that I don't go over the side in the first place! I think this is the best thing to aim for.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[jbate]

I would recommend using jack stays as others have suggested, running bow-stern and running along the coachouse and aside the cockpit. If you clip the jackstay in one position say near the mast (dividing it for/aft), then you can use a double-clip harness to move from the aft part of the jack stay to the fwd one (this is common practice). You should never unclip altogether - this defeats the object of fitting the jackstay...
JB

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Miker]

I changed my bow to stern wire jackstays that came with the boat to webbing ones as I got fed up with them rolling under my feet. I fitted bow to front of cockpit on deck either side of boat supported by four U bolts in cockpit, two front and back either side. I use two elasticated lines so that I am never unclipped.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Omatako]

I once read a report from USA of a single handed sailor who was found with his boat beached and him drowned alongside it. Critical issue is to stay on the boat, especially if you're alone. Getting yourself back on board is really pretty much impossible and again, especially if your on any form of autosteer and the boat is screaming (likely). I use jackstays as a secondary level of security which stays connected whenever I'm out of the cockpit but make sure that 95% of the time I have a primary clip to a solid anchor and short enough to prevent me going over the side. And I also have my jackstays inside the shrouds.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Trevj]

My apologies, I presume that I should be talking about jack-stays. I definitely didn’t mean the wires that run between the stanchions (lifelines?).
However, following your scheme of running them along the deck, inboard of the shrouds and lifelines would seem to be risking being towed alongside the vessel in the result of a MOB. Hence my original question.


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[MainlySteam]

There was the case out here too, in mid 1990's, where one crew went over the side in heavy seas to be towed on his tether, the other then also went over trying to recover him and they were both towed to their deaths. All that just outside the entrance of a harbour (Nelson) and visible to all.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dickh]

The best position I have seen was a pair of lifelines from the cockpit corner near the companionway, over the coachroof to a point in the centre, forward of the mast. This way you were farthest away from the boat side if you were swept overboard and therefore less likely to get dragged astern. This will of course depend on your deck layout if you can achieve this.
On my boat I have them fitted between the shrouds and the lifelines and go from the cockpit to a strong point in the bows. All the bolts on these strongpoints were replaced last year as I discovered they were only tiny bolts(about 4BA !!) so I replaced them with M6. Don't have the webbing loose, just taut is correct.
Again as mentioned, DON'T use wire, it rolls underfoot, use webbing of at least 2000 kg breaking strain.
Also have 3 or 4 hefty 'U' Bolts in the cockpit with substantial backing pads. (M8 minimum size)
Another point, the webbing suffers eventually from UV degradation, so remove after each trip(I have snap shackles at each end to make this easy)


<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[MainlySteam]

Our jack stays (webbing) can go either inside or outside of the shrouds, however I always fit them inside. With both fore and aft lower inners the distance to unclip over when going forward would be unsatisfactory if the jackstays are rigged outside.

However, we carry sufficient polyester braid to rig a high level lifeline around the boat if necessary - from the backstay bridle (it is bridled out close to the outer edges of the transom) to the shrouds and then angled down to the pulpit. I have to say though, either from being prepared or from having a large flush deck allowing access along most of it amidships, we have never felt the need to rig the high lines. I also have the feeling that when one rigs something like that, unless conditions really warrant it, one tends to be more inclined to rely on it, rather than taking sufficient care in the first place.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Abigail]

We are just refitting jackstays, as people say into strong plates through the deck - webbing to replace horrid, rolly, too short wires.

The Pardeys talk of fitting shoulder high lines on Taliesen as well as their jack stays for serious passage making. I've never worked out how they do that or what they make them with?

Like others on this thread and people such as the Pardeys, Annie Hill, Tristan Jones etc - the really good idea is to try not to go over in the first plae, and some argue that if you are too 'protected' you will be more careless ...



<hr width=100% size=1>Sarah&Pip

 

[TheBoatman]

Our jackstays are the webbing type and are fitted between the bow/stern cleats.

We rig them inside of the shrouds.

Our harnesses are all fitted with one short, one long line.

Jackstays are always rigged for night passages and only in the more lively daytime passages.

We always attach both harness clips when leaving the cockpit, then if we need to go right f'ward we can unclip the short line and attach it to the pulpit rail. If you "go over" you will only slide back as far as the shrouds. If you only need to get to the mast then we unclip the short line and attach it to an eye fitted on the mast. At no time are you unclipped from the boat.

With my RNLI Sea Check hat on, I always tell people,

1. If possible don't get yourself in a situation where someone stands the risk of going overboard.

2. If they do go over then the helmsman needs to get the way off the boat a.s.a.p or you'll be recovering a drowned crewman. It only takes seconds to drag someone through the water to drown them.

Here endith the lesson, The Boatman has spoken<s>

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Miker]

Re: Clipping onto mast

I was wondering whether clipping onto the mast would be better than a jackstay down the side of the boat. I assume that a rivetted bracket would not be strong enough. What about a length of webbing looped around the foot of the mast?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Strathglass]

Re: Clipping onto mast

I would sugest, Don't clip to the mast. In the worst case senario. If the mast goes, what then?.

I have has a wooden mast snap off at deck level.

Iain

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Miker]

Re: Clipping onto mast

I take your point. I didn't think of that possibility.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Trevj]

Thanks to you all for your many helpful comments. I'm still a little unsure of which af the many solutions to I'll adopt but I now have a more clear grasp of the many possible configurations.
Just a final note I. My knowledge of nautical terminology is meager so I used the term "lifelines". Many of you used the term "jackstays" so I looked up the terminology on the web and found:

JACK LINE Lines that running along the deck between the bow and stern used to attach a safety harness tether
JACKSTAY 1 : an iron rod, wooden bar or wire rope along a yard of a ship to which the sails are fastened
2 : a support of wood, iron, or rope running up a mast on which the loop or collar of a yard travels

Any comments?
;-)

Once more,
Thanks
TrevJ


<hr width=100% size=1>