lifejackets this will make you shudder

ulava

ulava

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plockton.com
Take a look at this web site http://www.theoldforge.co.uk/ and watch the banner as it changes starts off with folk playing fiddels etc and then moves on to what i can only describe as unbelvible, mum dad and a child straped into a pushchair on a dinghy with not a lifejacket in sight.
What do the rest of you think ? or is it just me /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Not just you!

dinghy.jpg
 
Well trying to be just a tad objective? look at the water, almost a flat calm, dinghy? well yes I suppose so, but a big one 12 footer, not really any risk as it appears, but then we will be getting the what if merchants piling in with this could have happened that could happened. if we lived our lives on the principal of this could happen and that could happen we would do bugger all, and no bugger would ever have invented the wheel!

I think that many on here have just a little too much propensity for wanting everything and everybody wrapped in cotton wool and saved from themselves! It's like one of the latest mad H&S load of bollix that kids can't play conkers without goggles and safety gloves! I ask ya???

Lets say that the situation in that photo posted by Mr. Rot is for real, ie not just part of a set up video, well those folks made their own decision about how they wanted to proceed, based on what they knew of their situation at the time. You have just got to allow people to do that, and not jump to conclusions, or damn them for doing it. it's their choice, not anybody elses.
 
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i think the dinghy is double skinned filled with foam / polystyrene

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably is, but I didn't want to get too technical, a lot on here can't cope with it! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Of course it was very sad, but not the same set of circumstances as being discussed. The message I am trying to get across is Freedom Of Choice. people have to be allowed to decide for themselves what is right for them. Otherwise we are all on a very slippery slope, because there are any number of H&S numpties out there that would dearly love to legislate away a lot of the freedoms we now have.

Ya know, youngsters, and people in general, have to be allowed to take risks, because if they are not allowed to do so, they will never learn for themselves what a risk is, and all the guidance in the world will never replace that, it's like using a Stanley Knife in the wrong way, and cutting yourself with it, chances are you wont do it again cos it hurts!

Oh I know my way of thinking in these matters is not fashionable these days, and I am probably a very small voice in the wilderness, but I am coming up to 60 years of age, and I have been sailing and participating in other "high risk" activities for nigh on 45 years, I am still here, and up until recent times, H&S was down to an individuals common sense.

Yes people do get hurt or killed, participating in "high risk" sports and pastimes, but that's life! people have to be allowed to decide on these matters for themselves.
 
So what if they manage to end up in the water..what is the worst that can happen and exactly how will it affect you?
So you don't want it to happen to them.. tough.. get on with your own life and let them make decisions about theirs. The only time you should (maybe) be telling someone else what to do is if their actions are going to impact on you and even then its's debatable.
Incidently, don't the government seem to agree with me on this? I am expected to lock my door to keep out thieves, which sugests I should take action to prevent damage to myself by others.



..............
Back to hiding behine settee now.
 
Did you mean to link that to me? If you did, I is completely confused? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Why is that when we were children and teenagers we could spend our time playing in dinghies in the sea and on rivers, falling out, surfing them in beach surf, falling out again, swim after them bail them out, go fishing, get abandoned and have to swim home, etc, etc without the numpties coming along and telling us what we were doing was unsafe and that we should have lifejackets on all the time which we did not need in normal conditions because we could swim and if that not very well at least keep ourselves afloat /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

Seem to see a lot of people these days on the water who are dead frightened of the water itself rather than hold it in sensible respect. And plenty on shore who think they know best.
 
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So what if they managed to end up in the water

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would they end up in the water? What are they doing to end up in the water? The boat is very stable, doesn't seem overloaded and if the passengers are experienced (and not just out of the pub) then it is unlikely (not impossible) that they'll end up in the water ... then ...
How do you know the depth of water where they are navigating - it could be just 2 or 3' ..

I do not wish to be prescribed by Laws/H&S about what we should/shouldn't do.... prescribing safety measures gives a minimum and removes a lot of the thought process for the end user - government have said its ok so it must be syndrome ... I prefer to make my own judgement for my safety.

FYI - I always wear a buoyancy aid when racing my RS400 - chances of a swim are much higher than usual ... and the pocket on the front is handy to put my sunglasses in. I rarely wear a LJ in the tender or on the big boat, only doing so when I feel the conditions warrant it. My usual crew (adult) usually wear their LJs in the tender and more frequently on the big boat than I do - that's their choice and they are free to do so.
 
I know mate, it's starting to all get beyond the pail! The Nanny State syndrome is creeping in all over the place, and it do get me riled at times.

Good to see a few common sense posts on this subject at last, at least there are some people out there that can and do still think for themselves! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Wellsaid, Smiffy...

Perhaps we should start yelling at the top of our voices? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Wellsaid, Smiffy...

have a look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/myth/index.htm

also see this report in the Telegraph


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/12/naccident112.xml

text quoted here .. commonsense and I suspect his last comment that H&S is picked on as a convenient excuse is very true


'Children need to have an accident'
By Telegraph Reporter
Last Updated: 1:21am GMT 13/11/2007



Health and safety "extremists" are preventing children from leading a healthy and robust lifestyle, the head of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents has said.

Tom Mullarkey accused "small-minded bureaucrats", of undermining genuine health and safety work.

He said officials should concentrate on making Britain "as safe as necessary, not as safe as possible".

Rospa aims to help prevent accidents that kill 12,000 people a year and cost the country £25 billion.

"But people have this perception of 'elf and safety' as something that restricts your life, rather than helping you to live fully and successfully," Mr Mullarkey said in his annual report.

"We do not believe in extremist health and safety ideas which would keep children wrapped in cotton wool.

"Our argument is that a skinned knee or a twisted ankle in a challenging and exciting play environment is not just acceptable, it is a positive necessity.

"We need to prepare children for a complex, dangerous world in which healthy, robust activity is more a national need than ever before.

"We think people should climb mountains, and sail boats - we are trying to help them in a practical way."

He said health and safety was too often used as a cover for cost-cutting. "I heard that a swimming pool would be closed for 'health and safety reasons' but it was because the roof was falling in, and they did not have the money to fix it," he said.
 
Seen from abroad, this preaching attitude of the Brits addressed to people minding their own business, while anti-social behaviour is tolerated in silence, is really quite bizarre. The cultural difference is neatly summed up by the old labels there used to be on Italian trains in four languages:
GB: 'It is forbidden to lean out of the window' (rules is rules and not yours to interpret)
F: 'Ne pas se pencher au dehors' (just don't...)
D: 'NICHT hinauchlesen (can't you just hear the 'nicht'!)
I: E' pericolo sporgersi ('it's dangerous to lean out' - so best not, eh? Let's be reasonable...).
 
Re: Wellsaid, Smiffy...

Thanks Jimmy, Just to pick one small point, the kids around here (N. Devon), no longer collect conkers from us, I have a pile about 18" high that will end up mashed and in the compost.

Let me re-iterate an example...........

A few weeks ago, I saw some kids with their instructors doing cycle traing at the end of our road. So I wandered down with a carrier bag full of conkers and said to one of the instructors that the kids could help themselves. Oh No! she said, we can't allow them to do that, we have no safety equipment!.........

Erm, what safety equipment? says I. Oh they have to wear gloves and safety goggles say she.

You, is having a laugh says I, kids have been playing conkers for centuries, and as far as I know no kid has ever been killed or seriously injured.

Welll we are not allowed to let them have them says she, who says? I asked and she told me that it was a directive from the local authority.

WTF!!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Why is that when we were children and teenagers we could spend our time playing in dinghies in the sea and on rivers, falling out, surfing them in beach surf, falling out again, swim after them bail them out, go fishing, get abandoned and have to swim home, etc, etc without the numpties coming along and telling us what we were doing was unsafe and that we should have lifejackets on all the time which we did not need in normal conditions because we could swim and if that not very well at least keep ourselves afloat .

Seem to see a lot of people these days on the water who are dead frightened of the water itself rather than hold it in sensible respect. And plenty on shore who think they know best.


[/ QUOTE ]

As a youngster I paddled an old galvanised bath with a beach spade on our local river and we made rafts out of oil drums string and branches.

At around 13 I built a canoe from a kit and used to tow it behind my bike on a pram wheel trailer and paddled it many miles on my own and no I didn't have a buoyancy aid and yes I capsized it.

At 16 I did the Tall Ships Race on an OYC Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter, the lifejackets were old wartime kapok type and when we threw one in one time, it sank. We were taught to tie bowlines to make our own safety harness and we used to climb the mast via the ratlines without safety lines at sea to lookout from the spreaders. We climbed the masts of all the Tall Ships after the race when in harbour, again without safety lines or hard hats or even adult supervision.

I bought an Enterprise sailing dinghy and a friend and I taught ourselves to dinghy sail on a gravel pit in winter, wearing old fashioned PVC 'oilies' and yes I did have a buoyancy aid. Learning in the cold of January/February taught us very quickly how to keep the boat from capsizing and to right it quickly when we didn't. Ironically when I got a lot better at it and regularly won races, I made a wetsuit to wear so I looked the part like the others.

I have a very healthy respect for the sea. I have never fallen overboard in 40 years of sailing. The nearest I ever came to it was changing headsails on a Liz 30 in a gale off Barfleur when I tripped over the harness line whilst carrying the old sail back to the cockpit.

My kids were brought up on boats, the youngest started cruising at 3 weeks old. They were not allowed out of the cockpit without harnesses at sea and even in the cockpit when very young. In harbour when they were really young we had a line tethered to the boom so they could be clipped on and move around at will without being able to reach the rails to fall in. In a marina (there weren't many then) they were required to wear lifejackets on the pontoons and never allowed to run around, until they were good swimmers then the LJ bit of the rule was relaxed.

Looking around our marina there are many who wear lifejackets to go out on the calmest of days on big boats, but that is their choice and I wouldn't argue against it at all. However I have seen one of these allow their kids to push each other up the pontoons in a marina trolley - now that IS stupid in my book.
 
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