Lifejackets are little better than decoration

E

EdWingfield

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 Apr 2006
Messages
1,553
Location
Campbeltown
Visit site
How about my risk assessment which concludes that as falling overboard is the major hazard, NOT staying afloat when in the water. Prevention is the primary objective. To achieve this: stay sober, wear a lifeline, or if overboard, have a means of re-boarding the dinghy or yacht.

Therefore lifejackets are little better than decorative, as once in the winter water, hypothermia from 10 mins on is the killer.
 
So lets suppose you fail to reach your primary objective, because you have incorrectly consumed or perhaps interpreted the information contained within your thrice checked, detailed and itemised method statement, then what ?
 
Most people sail in the summer. A good life-jacket with crotch strap can make a big difference to how long you survive. MAIB report on Ouzo sinking said that lifejacket with crotch strap allowed one crew member to stay alive for up to 12 hours. Sadly not long enough to be found. Whether taking 12 hours to die from hypothermia is a benefit or not is another question. But the lifejacket is the final stop after all else like safety lines/ harnesses & "one hand for the boat" have failed.
 
Whilst I agree with the prevention is better than cure theory, accidents to happen and when they do anything that may avoid a simple man overboard turning into a drowning has got to be a good thing.

Even in the UK waters are mostly warm enough to survive in for some time for most of the year. If they weren't then you'd see a lot less people swimming off our beaches.

A life jacket is far more than just decoration.

My kids look upon a life jacket in the same way as a seat belt in the car. Basic safety kit. Whilst in the car crashes should be avoided at all costs, they do still happen. Often caused by other people so seat belts are essential. In the same way life jackets are always work in my boat.

Never seen a yacht knocked down by an unexpected squall? In such circumstances the foredeck crew would rarely be wearing a harness, especially if racing.
 
Many years ago, I trained actively as a lifesaver.... not just a quick swim here and there, but active training with a national standard lifesaving team... 4 swims a week of between 0.5 and 1.0 miles, at least 10 lengths of a 50m pool doing sidestroke with a casualty, regular casualty recovery practice, including handling panicking and struggling casualties, etc etc etc..... suffice to say I was a VERY strong swimmer.

And when I had to swim with clothes on, I struggled to do more than a couple of lengths...... If you've never swum in a pair of trousers, a jumper and shoes, go try it... its frightening. Nowadays, i'd be chuffed with 30m before I got into SERIOUS trouble.
 
Assumption is the father of error.

You assume that you will not fall in. Therefore you will be unprepared if you do fall in. Where is the disadvantage in wearing a lifejacket?
Lifelines don't stop you falling in: you may still be attached to the boat but you won't necessarily have a convenient means of reboarding.
If your line fails or you have to release it, you are in the water wearing(if it is winter) several layers of wet, heavy clothing. Hypothermia may kill you in ten minutes but drowning can kill you a lot quicker. How long can you hold your breath?
What if you are injured when you fall in or even unconscious? Your crew or another boat may be able to recover a floating casualty; but a sinking casualty??
By all means take all the steps necessary to mimimize your chances of falling in but can you really be absolutely certain that you can never fall in? I'll take ten minutes with a chance of being rescued or saving myself over no chance at all!
 
If your lifejacket is fitted with the spray hood it will keep hypothermia at bay for a lot longer. How are you going to re-board if you have been knocked unconscious? Your lifejacket will keep you afloat until either rescue arrives or you regain your senses. How are people going to see you in the dark? Lifejackets are fitted with superb reflective surfaces.
After a 12 months trial period even Cornish fishermen have been persuaded of their usefulness and many are now wearing them full time.
I find your arguments weak, in the extreme.
To conclude, I was once sitting on deck having a cuppa while the yacht was secured to a mooring in the Helford River when we saw a baby go floating by on the ebb tide. He was wearing a lifejacket and gurgling happily to himself as a pannicky Dad rowed after him in an inflatable dinghy.
 
This theme has brought several thoughts to mind. The cost of the equipment to increase our chances of survival doesn't come cheap, a decent drysuit, personal epirb, lifejacket with all the bells and whistles and a harness and safety line will set us back £1400 thats £5400 for a crew of 4. I have this kit and when I decide to use it I am always surprised how heavy it all becomes when wet and how difficult it is to put on after visiting the loo. I have all to often found my self at the mast kitted up at night and needing say a shackle key to discover it is trapped under a maze of straps. This kit has its place but I believe careful assessment of the risks at the time is better than just following a rule.
 
In cold water you will quickly become uncoordinated and start hyper ventilating. A lifejacket will keep you afloat until you calm down.

I definitely agree that prevention is better than cure but people do end up in the water for a variety of reasons.

Lifejackets are a lot more than decoration.
 
To Centaur: Yes I have a system of re-boarding the boats I have owned – both dinghy and yacht, both proven by myself and rescued survivors.

To Searush: have to admit to no hazard analysis of being run down by fast ferry. I might try repentance and prayer.

Polantom and Jokerboat. Use shorter lifelines. And on the contrary Polantom, I do have a plan B. I can recover survivors, and have recovered four in two different rescues. One with lifejacket and three without. How about you?

Cornishman: Have to admit to not considering the recovery of gurgling babies passing by. No doubt I will include it in the future. Boat hook comes to mind.

‘Your lifejacket will keep you afloat until either rescue arrives or you regain your senses.’ –you forget the third option – until death! Best stay aboard.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This theme has brought several thoughts to mind. The cost of the equipment to increase our chances of survival doesn't come cheap, a decent drysuit, personal epirb, lifejacket with all the bells and whistles and a harness and safety line will set us back £1400

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain why a drysuit is included? Is it for all crew or do you have just one so you can deal with a tangled prop or whatever?
 
Re: Life jackets are little better than decoration

I totally concur with this post.

I am just waiting for the MAIB to finish their investigation into a serious accident that I was involved in and then I am going to post the story.

I want to shout it every time I see people not wearing life jackets.

I was knocked of the forecastle of a war ship many moons ago, the life jacket helped save me.

Our life jackets saved us on the Thames this summer.

LIFE JACKETS, LIFE JACKETS, LIFE JACKETS,.................. I'm still here cause I wear one.

Kill cords there's another one!!

Al.
 
As someone who, down through the years, had completed half-a-score of military sea survival courses, spent long times in liferafts large and small, taught survival swimming, and knows just how short is the available 'working time' for someone suddenly immersed into cold water.... As someone who has TWO offshore drysuits and the knowhow to use them.... As someone who has selected effective personal flotation kit, carries a personal strobe, selects, maintains and uses his offshore PPE kit with pro care...

I fully endorse the first part of Teredo's post that 'Prevention is the primary objective'.

I fully intend not to go over the side, and I carry and use what I consider the best kit to help me achieve that. To that end, I have selected and use, where I judge appropriate, a personal lifeline far stronger than the standard models ( I learned a lesson from the Glen Charles tragedy ), and a Petzl climber's chest harness more capable of coping with big shock loads than the chest-belt built into many sailing jackets. Oh, yes - and thigh straps. Actually, I have two such kits; one for my lady, or for whoever sails with me and needs one. You could call it belt and braces. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

However, Plan B is also covered, as indicated in the first para.

It never fails to shock me that many yotties will have for themselves a fine, expensive Personal Flotation Aid and a very second-rate one for the missus. Sometimes the kids are catered for - and sometimes not. Even the toddlers.....


/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
My late father used to say "life jackets are worn so they can recover the bodies".
Mind you he also used to say "Things are never so bad that they can't get worse" and he did wear one when I was at the tiller.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Therefore lifejackets are little better than decorative...

[/ QUOTE ]

Plonker.

Searush is spot on, that poor fella that survived for all that time would not have done so without a lifejacket - if he had a submersible vhf radio and a strobe clipped to it then even better.

Jokerboat - 100% on the mark; my son has been brought up knowing that you have a seatbelt for cars and a lifejacket for boats.

Morgana, as usual, I completely agree. You simply cannot 'swim' in heavy clothing, you need something to keep you at the suface.

And yes, lifejackets make it easier to recover bodies as well as barely conscious survivors. Even in death do some good and wear a lifejacket, the sooner they find you the sooner they can get on and look for the next (one who may have clung on a bit longer).

Lifejackets are great, they are like jackets only they save lives.
 
>Can you explain why a drysuit is included? Is it for all crew >or do you have just one so you can deal with a tangled prop >or whatever?

Three of the postings refered to hypothermia which I consider to be a significant risk, a dry suit makes a big difference. I'm lucky as my present boat has jackstays rigged in such a way that I cannot fall off if clipped on but nothing comes with a guarantee at sea because I capsize i'm in deep do-do.
 
Hmm. I find your attitude flippant and irresponsible. You are just the sort for whom the RNLI set up the SEA Check, but I guess you think you know more than we do and wouldn't ask for a visit anyway. Pity, you might learn something from real seamen
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I find your attitude flippant and irresponsible. You are just the sort for whom the RNLI set up the SEA Check, but I guess you think you know more than we do and wouldn't ask for a visit anyway. Pity, you might learn something from real seamen

[/ QUOTE ]
Mmmm, I'll tell my crew that they are not real seamen according to Cornishman because they don't wear lifejackets. Their reaction would be to ask what idiot said that.

In fact they would mutiny if they were forced to do so as the boat is both their home and workplace. Do you suggest they sleep in them too?

Plenty of sweeping statements being made about it being silly not to wear lifejackets but that smacks of inability of those making the claims to make sensible seamanlike assessments of risk including boat size in that.

It is all weekend sailor talk, I have never seen liveaboards and long distance sailors wearing lifejackets on board as a matter of course even on quite small boats (although there must be exceptions to everything).

How many people wear lifejackets for the duration of an Atlantic crossing, or 6 weeks at sea in the Pacific? And then those adding that one should also be laden with crotch straps, PLBs, VHF's, etc, etc all day long, days on end astound me. As I say, is just weekend sailor talk.

On any boat over around 7 m that was not open or had some other particular risk factor about it I would refuse to sail with any skipper that required I wore a lifejacket at all times - that on the basis that the skipper was incapable of making sensible assessments of risk and so probably a danger to sail with.
 
On a lighter note....

When Spike Milligan and his fellow gunners were being sailed to war they were told that if they wished to sleep on the deck of the troopship they had to wear their lifejackets.

Having done that for the first night he penned these wonderful words.

"Now I know how Mae West would feel sleeping face-down on her back"

Evocative............ /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
I have see three MOB situations - all missed footing in perfectly benign conditions - lack of concentration. In all cases wearing clothing inhibiting swimming.

In the cases where a lifejacket was being worn, and non-panicked efficient rescue was accomplished. In the case where no life jacket was worn a cack-handed, rushed and bruising hoist out was all that could be managed. I don't insist on all weather life-jacket wearing, and in the two rescues where they were worn it was the wearer's choice.

In hairy conditions I insist, in benign conditions I tell the crew this story and let them choose. Sometimes I sail with crew so inexperienced that I doubt that they could rescue me in the marina. I wear a lifejacket.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top