License required in France for Foreign Registered Boat?

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J12345T

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Hi All,

A quick question. I am intending to operate my 50 foot New Zealand registered launch in the French and Italian Riviera later this year. As a New Zealand citizen with experience in similar craft in NZ, do I need any French licenses to operate as stated?

I should say that in New Zealand we do not require licenses to operate private marine vessels...

Cheers,

James.
 
French could adopt a different attitude.
If the boat is primarily based in a Fr Port then in theory in ther eyes it should irrespective of its flag comply with Fr maritime laws , customs and practices .
Transient passagemakers - they are a bit lenient normally
Question is , with 1 year are you “ transient “ or permanent enough for them to apply there practices?

There a book “ bloc Cotier” which details the min requirements .As a foreign flagged vessel you don,t need a up to date copy but nether the less it’s a reference of what’s needed .
As well as qualifications it’s got other practical stuff listed .

They recently last summer tightened the screw on foreign flagged vessels “based “ in Fr waters employment/ social contribution charges for crew , as an example .
I think it’s the only Western Med country that will charge social security charges / taxes related to such like pension contributions on your crew if your boats “ based “ in there waters .
A port or marina berths counts as based . Owners can,t hide behind the flag any more - they used to unless transient .

Enforcement
Up to now pretty light touch in my experience.
We have been stopped 4 times in 13 years .
They turn up @ anchorages .
If there’s just say 3 of you on a damp November week end then they will come on board .
If there’s 100,s in a busy August bay - you can see them via a rib ( they are armed with side arms btw ) start boarding randomly.Usually foreign flagged .

When this happens these normally one or two etc that quietly up anchor and disappear more than the normal comings and goings j have noticed .
Those 4 times are when we have been picked out not when we been in the mix btw , they can,t “do “ all 100
After the pleasantries are over

1 st thing they ask is “ where are you from .?“ - they trying to establish where your home port is thus where you are based .
Then - are you the owner ?
Who is the “ captain “ ————— they call what we would term skipper a “captain “
Reg document - to tie up with the flag
How many pax on board
Insurance doc ,
I,can’t remember ( wife’s the Fr tongue in our boat ) if they specifically asked for the qualification s or not - as all our bumf is in a folder and I just tip it out on the cockpit table were we all sit round and rummage through it .
I do show them my French Permit d Mer and get a “ Tres Bien “from the Captain .

Although it’s not your Q they have never asked for proof of VAT - yet

As said light touch ^^^ we me so far
Having a dog that pops up once they an board barking his head off and hanging on to a trouser leg - hurry’s proceedings along :)

How ever Last season I witnessed another side .
A rib was speeding through an speed limeted anchorage .
@ one end the Douanes were going about there business in a black rib concealed by the mass of boats .
They saw “ speedy “ and shot off in persuit - got him 100m away from us ( quietly anchored )
It had two or more families on board - @ least 12 people - took an hour or more ,loads of paper work being written , they went through every locker and the “ captain “ was to me looked like he had to show them every piece of kit as they went down the list in the Bloc Cotier - whistle , signal mirror , bailing bucket and much more —-
They even got all the life vests out and made them put then on .
There was not enough and more so the adults ones did not fit the kids n toddlers aboard .
Each time more paperwork was generated - I specifically saw one of them pick a kid up wearing an adult life vest to demo to the “ captain “ that the kids about to drop out .
Wives shaking there heads .
The boat was Fr reg so I presume they know where he lives so to speak .

So really others on here like ^^^ will say ICC and some may suggest you hide behind your flag state rule s

But the French - hmm they could do anything on the day
Buts it’s up to the attitude of the Fr guy (s) that inspect you on the day .
 
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Good summary Porto, when I was boarded, as you say winters day and me the only one at anchor, they saw I wasn’t wearing a life jacket but were very impressed when one of them spotted it on the pilot seat. They don’t want to see it in storage. If it’s training day they will ask to see everything and they are very serious people
 
James,

There are a number of RYA training establishments who will be happy to exchange € into RYA licences for you and you might be able to conduct the training on your own boat. These guys are in my port and popular - https://www.oceanpro.co.uk/

I will be converting my sail licences to power with them this year as I don't want to have any hassles if I am stopped. We have been boating for 4 years now on the Cote d'Azur and have not been stopped or searched. but expect to one day.

My boat is on the UK flag.
 
Bouba said:
Good summary Porto, when I was boarded, as you say winters day and me the only one at anchor, they saw I wasn’t wearing a life jacket but were very impressed when one of them spotted it on the pilot seat. They don’t want to see it in storage. If it’s training day they will ask to see everything and they are very serious people
Click to expand...

I don't see why the life jackets shouldn't be in storage, legally speaking. The new (2014) french Division 240 says that life jackets should be worn at any time...on PWCs only.

Anyway I completely understand those guys will not dig for dirt until they find it if you show signs of serious seamanship, and having the jacket at hand in the cockpit is definitely part of it.

For the legally (french speaking) inclined: https://www.ecologique-solidaire.go...e consolide 12 decembre 2014 avec SIGNETS.pdf
 
iapetus said:
I don't see why the life jackets shouldn't be in storage, legally speaking. The new (2014) french Division 240 says that life jackets should be worn at any time...on PWCs only.

Anyway I completely understand those guys will not dig for dirt until they find it if you show signs of serious seamanship, and having the jacket at hand in the cockpit is definitely part of it.

For the legally (french speaking) inclined: https://www.ecologique-solidaire.go...e consolide 12 decembre 2014 avec SIGNETS.pdf
Click to expand...
Interesting link, the fact it says LONGUEUR INFERIEURE OU EGALE A 24 M, means there’s another paper on boats over 24m and that would be of interest to the recent thread on the subject
 
iapetus said:
Indeed there is:
Division 242: "Navires de longueur de coque supérieure à 24 mètres et de jauge brute inférieure à 3000 (grande plaisance ou grands yachts)"
Click to expand...
I suppose the answer to the question of what’s needed for a boat over 24m, is a lot.
This doesn’t seem to cover what qualifications are needed to skipper a very big boat. My assumption is all you need is a permis hauturier, iapetus you seem to be good at research, do you think that I’m correct?
 
In France, as far as I could understand the intricacies of the maritime law, the current permis côtier (and the hauturier) allow you to skipper any boat with no limit as to tonnage or length. Sounds too incredible to be true imho (knowing the French), but nothing in the texts says otherwise.

Anyway it seems that your national license terms will prevail. Ex: Luxembourg "base" sea licenses are limited to max 24m (Netherlands to 15m if I'm not mistaken), and the french will probably bust you if they catch you entering Port Vauban on your new Princess 35M with nothing else.

EDIT: got my answer : you can't register a boat over 24 m as a french "plaisance" boat, so under normal conditions the "permis plaisance" won't allow you to skipper anything larger than 24 m, I guess that's the rationale behind the law. So it all depends on your national license limitations, I'd say.
 
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iapetus said:
In France, as far as I could understand the intricacies of the maritime law, the current permis côtier (and the hauturier) allow you to skipper any boat with no limit as to tonnage or length. Sounds too incredible to be true imho (knowing the French), but nothing in the texts says otherwise.

Anyway it seems that your national license terms will prevail. Ex: Luxembourg "base" sea licenses are limited to max 24m (Netherlands to 15m if I'm not mistaken), and the french will probably bust you if they catch you entering Port Vauban on your new Princess 35M with nothing else.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, it’s also my understanding but I still wouldn’t feel confident waving my permis in front of a judge in a French court if something went wrong. Not that I’m in the market for a boat with fenders bigger than my wife
 
iapetus said:
In France, as far as I could understand the intricacies of the maritime law, the current permis côtier (and the hauturier) allow you to skipper any boat with no limit as to tonnage or length. Sounds too incredible to be true imho (knowing the French), but nothing in the texts says otherwise.

Anyway it seems that your national license terms will prevail. Ex: Luxembourg "base" sea licenses are limited to max 24m (Netherlands to 15m if I'm not mistaken), and the french will probably bust you if they catch you entering Port Vauban on your new Princess 35M with nothing else.

EDIT: got my answer : you can't register a boat over 24 m as a french "plaisance" boat, so under normal conditions the "permis plaisance" won't allow you to skipper anything larger than 24 m, I guess that's the rationale behind the law. So it all depends on your national license limitations, I'd say.
Click to expand...

Well your addendum changes everything! There was bound to be a French get out clause. Thanks for the research :encouragement:
 
Hi All,

Thanks for all the info. The boat was French registered up until a month ago when I purchased her and re registered her in New Zealand. The plan is to cruise the CDA for a month or so this year then export to NZ.

So on one hand the boat has been in the CDA for the last 10yrs but as of this year is 'itinerant' in that she will be leaving in September...

I'm trying to get an ICC but it is proving difficult..

Cheers,

James.
 
J12345T said:
Hi All,

Thanks for all the info. The boat was French registered up until a month ago when I purchased her and re registered her in New Zealand. The plan is to cruise the CDA for a month or so this year then export to NZ.

So on one hand the boat has been in the CDA for the last 10yrs but as of this year is 'itinerant' in that she will be leaving in September...

I'm trying to get an ICC but it is proving difficult..

Cheers,

James.
Click to expand...

Why is it proving difficult there are nine RYA training centres in NZ ?
 
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