LIBS Can I step on your boat please mister?

[longjohnsilver]

Now if we pay for a ticket are we entitled to look at any boat on display, or are the manufacturers/salesmen justified to keep away those they consider to be unworthy of touching their precious comodity?

IMHO they shouldn't be there if they don't want the general public touching, after all they can't easily tell who's serious and who's not, and if they're that worried about the great unwashed they could invite appointments at their factory.

If you purchase a ticket to a boat/car/caravan/ideal home/catering show then you expect to be able to inspect the goods.

Perhaps they're forgetting that without the punters there would be no show.

LIBS by invite or prior appointment only....................now that would make for interesting attendance figures.

Excuse me sir, you haven't produced a current bank statement, oh I see, oh dear oh dear, forget that 45 footer, now how about this lovely 1.6 metre self assembly inflatable, glue extra.

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[BrendanS]

Bit of a difficult one really. Given that they don't build huge numbers of boats (Compared to say cars) and they can be very expensive, they don't often have mint condition demonstrators around and they often use boats that have already been sold, or will later be sold (though not always the case). Sometimes like at SBS an existing owner will bring their boat to be used. You have to be careful with these boats for obvious reasons.

If they let just anyone wander in, dropping chewing gum on carpets, kids jumping and swinging on things, a lot of wear/tear/damage would result. So, they have to have some criteria as to who goes on boats.

Though, it is clear, that some stands are a lot more tolerant than others. Though some stands just draw huge amounts of people eg Sunseeker, and if huge numbers of people who are just there for a day out, with no intention of ever owning a boat, and a potential buyer wanted a look around, surely the potential buyer should have precendence. The manufacturers are there to sell, not to provide family entertainment at the end of the day.

No easy answer

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[BarryH]

Sorry Brendan I got to disagree with you on that one. Its a show open to the general public. Its advertised all over the shop, tubes, trains, radio, tv etc. So if these manufacturers book a stand at the show then they should let Jo Public look at their wares. If they don't want Jo Public on their boats then they shouldn't be there. They should have factory open days for prospective purchasers.
Nothing riles me more than some "up his own arse" salesman telling me I'm not good enuogh to look at "his" boat.

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[BrendanS]

Think you have to seperate out the show organisers who sell tickets and stands to cover costs amd make a profit from the show, against manufacturers or dealers who are there to sell boats.

Manufacturers and dealers don't want valuable property damaged, which could happen if they just allowed anyone to wander on, and huge crowds on the big popular boats would mean sales people unable to do their job with potential buyers.

A bit of balance called for IMHO

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[Solitaire]

I'm with you on this Barry. And, perhaps more fundamentally, the punter pays to go to the show. In my view there is therefore a kind of contract that says I can look at anything in the show I like - with the possible exception of sensitive areas on the frigate. Peope go to the show both to buy and to dream and in the majority of cases pay for that priveledge. OK , so there are expensive boats at the show and yes salesmen have to sell boats, but it is all so a "showcase" As with the motor shows folks go to look - you can see inside a car, but how the hell can you see inside a boat without going on board. I know of someone who flew in from Europe and had £250k car parked in the car park - they were seriuosly looking to buy a Manhattan, but, because of the saleman's attitude, they walked off the stand halfway through discussions. Sorry, if they don't want visitors to the show looking over the boats - don't exhibit!
Ok, some of the boats on show are already sold, but the owner gets a nice little package for "allowing" the boat to be exhibited. You can't tell me that Nigel Mansell did not get an "adavantage" for buying the his new boat from Sunseeker and having the priveledge of some 20 mins. of exposure on ITV last weekend. No, LBS is a show, every one who goes to the "show" should be able to see! Now, which stand will I go back to tomorrow after I win a few £million on the lottery tonight? /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Oh, how I wish!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Boating is <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.powerboattraininguk.co.uk>Serious Fun</A>

 

[hagrid]

Im the the other on this one, If Sunseeker or whoever exhibit at these shows then they should allow people (ordinary people to view their wares) We sometimes forget how we started with this passion, Some people go to the show for years prior to buying,

My experience is this, for those who are interested:

Sep 01 in Spain did PB 1/ 2 ICC returned to UK, Went to SBS to look at what I would want, and should could buy, at the SBS it became clear or certain manufactures were better at customer service than others, and last years LBS we went again, this time the decision had been narrowed because of treatment at SBS, now decision is to be made between a couple of manufactures, and to this day, the guys from Fairline are IMHO the best at CS, at these shows.

So while I can see both sides and would not want kids sticking gum over boats etc, there are enough signs saying please keep on the seats, that is unless you are really serious and sit down with a salesman and start talking numbers

So what can we learn, over the duration of LBS, I would think IBC should take these posts and make them public for the manufactures to see and improve for next year, although my guess is they wont what to upset the apple cart, when it comes to saying hey Mr Sunseeker you were crap at the show, your staff need to be better trained. Nope I guess all we can do is hope the MD, SD of Sunseeker is pointed to here to read some of the comments, It would be nice to think as we buy the publications we can get some input into what goes in to them to improve the quality of our chosen pleasure.

My opinion to date without attending the show with Kids has been Fairline No1, but we shall see tomorrow.

Maybe what we need is TopKnott, to assist with putting pressure on the industry, it worked for the car buyers, A program that exposes the crap service we all expect and get from the people we keep in employment.

Here endith my sermon for those who can be bothered to read it.....

P.S should the publications be a little harder on the manufactures, I have seen nothing at all that would indicate the publications speak out on our behalf? Do the need the ad revenue so badly? If they were a little more forceful maybe we all see the changes!


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[PGD]

I didn't have any problems went up to Sunseeker and said mind if I have a look, girl said fine and that was a 830K predator. No problems with the Sealine S38 either.

So that said I still appreciate where your coming from.

Peter

<hr width=100% size=1>Complete the Consumer Survey <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.mssa.org.uk>http://www.mssa.org.uk</A> Marine Service Standards Assistance

 

[Alistairr]

Well, i obviously look a poor guy, Because i wanted more info on the small Targa at the Fairline stand,Found a salesman, started to ask him questions, he didn't want to know!! The only question he asked was where would the boat would be based, to which i said the Clyde, and he replied " All sailing in the Uk is 'Crap', you need to moor it on the Med. And i said no, i like to go to the boat every weekend. He didn't like that, and walked away from me.

Sunseeker however were delighted to talk, and let us look on their boats, so too were Princess, Sealine,Rodman, and Azimut, The later being the best, and even giving us a guided tour of the Azimut 55, And taking plenty of time to explain everything.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://arweb.co.uk/argallery/alistair?&page=1> My Pictures, Look if you want.</A>

 

[Bejasus]

At SIBS, one of the boats we specifically went to look at, was the new Broom 39. However, the salesman, upon hearing we had a 4 berth 25 ft cruiser on the Broads, immediately lost interest. Nedless to say, we walked away, but as I only live half an hour from Bromm, I made my displeasure known at the sales office, a week later.

In contrast to the comments from most above, I steered away from mobos at LIBS as we are now looking at liveaboard options, and I have to say that every saily thing(cats, motorsailers etc), had nothing but very pleasant and accomodation staff, more than pleased to show us everything and discuss any options. Even on the Island Packet 48(gorgeous) at £435k.

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[EME]

I totally agree. The unfortunate thing is that this is a British broker malaise IMHO.

I have been fortunate enough to go to several other boatshows outside the Uk as well. I have never been refused access to any boat at the Cannes show which has a lot more quality boats than LIBS, yet seems even busier . And generally the brokers are superb ( although there if you are a Brit they are only interested if you want to sail in the Med ! ) - admittedly you do have to make appointments for the Superyachts ... but much bigger/better than the stuff at LIBS.

The only exception to the good treatment there was unfortunately from Sunseeker in 2002 , but I posted that story here before.

I find most of the brokers at LIBS rude - and a Sunseeker rep was too busy to advise me of the delivery on a Sportfisher - and I had an invite to the stand !! My treatment the year before was even worse. Of course, maybe they do recognise 'tyrekickers' , if so then please stop sending me invites !

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>I am WHAT I say I am</font color=blue>

 

[sealine]

I agree, we have a small sealine, once they found this out, they gave a sideways look, Hay we all have to start some where, They need reminding, from little acorns great oaktrees grow. The funny thing is that we were looking to upgrade and in the market for a bigger boat.

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[hlb]

Wot they need is threee boat shows. One for us lot. Second hand, tramp all over the place. Practice dropping anchors on salesmens heads. Swearing about crap cleats and you mean it's got a V*l>O engine /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

One for all the wanabees. Just look at flash boats not got a penny.

Then one for the flash gits that can afford a big new one../forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn

 

[Artie]

As a flash git who boght a new one (June 2001} I too was amazed how difficult it was as a potential buyer to get aboard and look round boats. Southampton that is as I've never done London.
My boat was on show at the Seaward stand SBS in 2001 and 2002. What did I get out of it?
1. An "as new" boat AFTER the Show
2. Free flights for my wife and I to Southampton plus free entry to SBS
3 The satisfaction that anyone could get on the boat and have a look round and serious people could even have a spin.
But then - that is Barry Kimber MD of Seaward who builds his boats to order with care and curtesy and he looks after his clients.
Now its not Show material but I am always happy to dem the boat when he has a potential buyer.

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[kimhollamby]

Strange comment

<font size=1>So what can we learn, over the duration of LBS, I would think IBC should take these posts and make them public for the manufactures to see and improve for next year, although my guess is they wont what to upset the apple cart, when it comes to saying hey Mr Sunseeker you were crap at the show, your staff need to be better trained. </font size=1>

I presume you mean us (IPC)? In which case I can give you the comfort of knowing that these posts are being monitored by show organisers. Plus of course they are already available to the public!

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[Greg2]

Took my 10 year old son for the first time - he loves boats and was like a dog with two tails. I was struck by the higher number of 'Viewing by appointment only' signs than last year and was less than impressed with the attiitude of some sales staff. I felt almost apologetic asking to go on some boats...how dare I take up thier time?

As an illustration I have been thinking about a second hand Grand Banks (admittedly quite an old one) but as they haven't changed much I was looking forward to having a look at thier stand - the guy let us on but he was looking down his nose and instructed me to 'keep HIM off the fittings and don't let HIM touch anything' in a very disdainful gesture to my boy. Managed not to tell him what I thought and insstead said that MY SON (not 'him') had been around boats long enough to know what not to do.

Now I know that I couldn't even begin to think about buying a new GB but someone who can buy one might just need to sell a boat and if I like what I have seen at the show I might just be the potential customer for that used boat...

Does it really have to be spelt out to these guys how any market works?

Total contrast on the Inland Waterways section - look all you like and friendly staff to boot (and I didn't see a trail of damaged fittings)

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[kindredspirit]

I did actually hear a story a few years ago, direct from the owner of a boat company that a visitor had actually used the toilet on one of the boats on display to do a Number 2 ! ! !

And it was true ! AND NOT an urban legend. The owner's wife was apolectic. She kept on ranting and raving about it.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.begleys.com/kevin/weather.htm>Useful links for when cruising in Irish waters.</A>

 

[Col]

I know someone who works on one of the main exhibitors stands, and one of the big problems they have is theft.
Not just the little overshoe thingys they like you to wear, but bigger things like towels, crockery, and even the sun pads have been nicked! (although how you would walk off un-seen with a 6X4 Sunpad beats me!!)

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/colspics> Cols Picture Album</A>

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Whats the matter, ljs? It wasnt the 'No Devon Yokels' sign on the Sunseeker stand, by any chance
My opinion is that these exhibitors pay tens maybe hundreds of thousands of pounds to exhibit and that entitles them to allow who they want on their stands. If that attitude then alienates potential future customers then that is the exhibitors loss and hopefully their business will suffer.

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[longjohnsilver]

Err, Sumerzet axshully! Altho boat's in Devon.

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[hlb]

Zumerzet. No wonder your puddled with all that cider.../forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> <font color=blue>No one can force me to come here.<font color=red> I'm a volunteer!!.<font color=blue>

Haydn