Leaking Exhaust Risers

[sb99]

I have had a survey carried out and am awaiting the outcome, however having posted some pictures of engine on this forum it has become apparent that there is a leak between the manifold and riser which as I understand means the gasket between them has failed and water is seeping out and may also be seeping into the exhaust gas chamber. If the later has happened then the problem could be quite serious.

I obviously intend approaching the Broker about this issue but would like clarification on the following:

I intend asking for the riser and gaskets to be replaced and am going to request an engine survey.
Am I entitled to ask for the vendor to cover these costs.

For clarification the stage I am at now is I have made an offer, paid a deposit and had survey and sea trial in which the boat appeared to go well.

One again any advice much appreciated

Steve

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

You cannot expect the vendor to pay any of your survey costs but you can expect to be able to negotiate on the costs of putting right any faults your survey has uncovered. The problem is deciding what is a fault and what is a regular service item as you are buying a used boat and therefore you should expect to have to pay for regular servicing in the future
In this particular case it sounds like the fault is not a regular service job and therefore you should go back to the broker and request that the vendor puts it right or reduces the price of the boat by an appropriate amount

 

[mainshiptom]

What is the boat and engine?

Tom

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Tom, it's here .

cheers
Jimmy

 

[sb99]

The boat is a 1989 sunray mirage.

The engine type is a bit of a mystery. The specification claimed it was a mercruiser but speaking to a mercruiser dealer here in Cardiff and shown him photos he has said it is not mercruiser and he would not want to take it on for servicing and repairs due to non-standard parts etc. I am trying to get hold of the volvo engineers to see if they would take it on as it does appear to be closer to a volvo than mercruiser from what others have said. See this thread for photos of engine
Quantum Engine

 

[Dave_Snelson]

OK, first things first. If one riser has failed then so will the other(s). The problem with risers is they don't just fail by leaking on the outside. Take a look at this manifold...

Its all blocked up and the land areas are far too small for any gasket to be effective and correspondingly the riser will be in the same condition. It costs £500 per manifold and £250 per riser, you need to negotiate this off the price. Do not buy this boat and skimp the repair. The engine will blow very soon if it isn't already damaged. BTW - here is a picture of a manifold in good nick.

I replaced all 4 risers on mine and luckily the fannimolds were OK. Nonetheless, I had them skimmed by a specialist engineering firm just to make sure the gaskets were effective. Costs £50 per skim.

 

[sb99]

OK just before I go for a lie down

I should negotiate the price down to get these works rectified and bearing in mind the potential damage would it be wise to pay for an engine survey?

Secondly as the specification stated the engine was a Mercruiser V8 260hp petrol and it appears not to be such a beast would I be entitled to pull out of the deal on this basis. Not that I intend doing this at this stage but would like to know where I stand.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

OK, last things first this time... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yes, you would be within your rights to pull out of the deal on the basis of misrepresentation - and thats up to you!

The motor is indeed a small block V8 and the giveaway is on the air box top where it says 350 - that means 350 cu inch or 5.7L and parts are probably VP...but that bit is guesswork on my part.

Assuming you still want the boat, you can do some simple checks yourself just by seeing how the engine starts and listening to it run. These V8's run crisp and vibration free and should have no discernable rattles or odd noises. Open the oil cap and check that there is no emulsion on the underside. Check the oil on the dip stick. If you are still unsure, then yeah, get the engine surveyed.

If you are still happy at this stage, then secure a price reduction for two exhausts (£1000) and two risers (£500) and a gasket set - and don't forget the labour at £50 per hour for 6 hours, that's another £300. Total £1800 - call it two-grand.

Don't be tempted to pocket the money, go straight round to the repair shop and get it sorted. The weather is too crap to go boating anyway /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[oldgit]

Everybody on here is prob well aware of this site but for any newbies around who may think that sorting Mercruiser risers is a 5 min 5 quid job look here.Rubbish Risers /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Chris_d]

Just another thought, if your surveyor doesn't comment on the risers in his survey, (even if he wasn't doing an engine survey he should have noticed) then I would worry about what else he missed. I've had several surveys and they always miss stuff, you need to check everything works yourself, lights, depth sounder, trim tabs etc etc...

 

[Dave_Snelson]

All very valid points - my surveyor missed loads...but lets not go there!

 

[sb99]

I'm expecting survey to arrive tomorrow, will keep you posted.
Thanks for the info and pictures. I am going to volvo dealer in Cardiff am saturday to check that they can support/service engine prior to contacting broker Monday.
I guess my original plan to lift out at Chichester and drop in at Cardiff will have to be modified slightly.
/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Steve

 

[mont]

Thanks for link. Very good reading.

 

[adey]

Why are exhausts and risers so expensive here when they're so cheap in the USA. (For example) ?
Maybe because V8 petrols are more common I suppose.
Would it be better to buy them online?
My boat is now five years old and has the original manifolds and risers. Should I change mine as a precaution or wait until they start to leak?

 

[alb40]

Dont wait till they start to leak! They will probably destory your engine before you notice!

A friend of mine has a volvo v8 engine, and he has just removed, inspected and refitted with new gaskets as part of his winter service. The gaskets wern't expensive (from keyparts) so it might pay to check them. Didnt take very long really, and they were painted prior to refitting to tidy up the engine bay a bit.

 

[sb99]

Went to the volvo dealer this morning. He has painted a very bleak picture stating that the engine is not standard and that I will have difficulty in obtaining spare parts. He said that in a years time I could possibly looking at a new engine.To be fair he was very helpful and honest and stated that he didn't want to rain on our parade but in his opinion we should cut our losses and get out of the deal now.
I am still waiting for survey results but it looks now that I will have to pull out of the deal on misrepresentation of the engine which was advertised as mercruiser. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Dave_Snelson]

5 years is as long as you can expect from risers - check and/or replace this winter!

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Jeffin 'ell, they are cheap £105 for V6 fannimold and £60 for risers. A whole set for my boats two engines would be less that £350!! If I spent another £100 on P&P, it would still cost me less that just one feckin' manifold over here. Thieving barstewards at Volvo. Site duly bookmarked. Thanks Adey.

 

[ArthurWood]

My 12-yr-old, 1400 hr Merc risers are stainless and were from new. I recently changed the gaskets and found that after 200 hr with the newer style, metallised type, that only one was leaking slightly inwards. I had the manifolds replaced at 1100 hr, but the risers are still fine. In the past, I have meticulously changed the gaskets after each 100 hr (Merc svc interval) and this was about right, but in any case, it's a good idea to regularly check for outward leakage as evidenced by rust around the gaskets and down the outside of the risers. As the man said, if it's leaking out, it's probably also leaking in.

 

[Solitaire]

[ QUOTE ]
Went to the volvo dealer this morning. He has painted a very bleak picture stating that the engine is not standard and that I will have difficulty in obtaining spare parts.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was my first thought when I saw the pictures of your engine. What nobody seems to have noticed is that the engine has a closed cooling system which is unusual on a petrol boat engine, it also means that the corrosion is not likely to be from salt laden water, so it may be just fresh/coolant leaking out. As to the risers - that was the final demise of my V8. I replaced the risers - £104 each if I recall from Keyparts - the engineer who put them on did not tighten/align the gaskets correctly them and water leaked, I told him about this but was told not to worry - but if they are leaking on the outside, they may/are leaking on the inside. That turned out to be the case and the engine hydro-locked - result new engine!!

It is a non standard engine with signs of a problem which could be terminal/expensive. I'd tend to agree with the Volvo dealer and walk away. There are plenty of boats on the market.