Lead keel modification

[jim4971211]

I race an Elan 295 which is a light airs flyer (fractional rig, v.large main, 110% jib) but it really struggles upwind in anything above force 4 & also then falls badly off to leeward. The keel is lead with a "shoe" shaped bulb, flat underneath. Any ideas on how to "fatten" the shoe to increase weight by say 50-70 Kgs. preferably without increasing draught (already 1.90 metres) which would have rating implications under IRC. Some suggestions have been to wrap roofing lead like a bandage around the shoe, glass over,& fill. I have spoken to one owner who did this but I think the shape of the shoe doesnt really lend itself to this, all of the shoe being aft of the leading edge of the keel. I would also be concerned not to affect the resale value of the boat by doing a modification which could be perceived as "agricultural". Another suggestion has been to cut off the shoe & recast it incorporating the extra weight & reattach it to the keel using ss bolts. I would be grateful for any ideas & would be particularly glad to hear from anyone who has had a similar problem with the performance of an Elan 295.

 

[alienzdive]

Get a naval architect to look at the design and see if it is possible to put a winged keel on the bottom on in place of the shoe.

 

[ashanta]

I'm sorry If you have already considered this and you probably have but sometimes (IMHO) the up wind performance is lost and excessive heeling is experienced when the sails are knackered. In your case this would most likely be the main (if this is the case?) If it's stretched the symptoms you describe would be evident. I personally feel that in the main our designers know their stuff (I certainly would think that Etaps are well designed but that's an assumption) and therefore the last thing I would be doing is changing the hydro dynamic design without having explored some basic sail experiments.
Regards.

peter.

 

[npf1]

A designer/n. architect called Hugh Wellbourne might be a guy to speak to. He redesigned the rudder on a boat I used to race on.

 

[ashanta]

Sorry, i mean't Elan!

 

[Swagman]

I'd agree with all the above - especially jumping from the frying pan.

Had a pal who paid over the odds to have 'wings' fitted to a Farr 1020 keel by a top line designer. Practical tests led to it being smashed off with a big hammer one month later......

Peters advice is sound about checking all other causes and if you're still wishing to do something with a keel - look to having a new one designed and bolted on rather than trying to modify the exisiting.

Good luck
JOHN

 

[FullCircle]

Would suggest that you do some elementary testing with mainsail reefing (or cunningham) and jib size in higher wind strengths, to establish best heel angle, rudder balance etc for upwind speed. It could be that a reefed main and No 3 is faster than maximum sail area.....
I presume you have worked out your best halyard tensions, backstay adjustment, genoa car positions etc. Have you had the mast/rig tuned by a decent rigger? You didnt say if youve got your tiller in your ear at F4, but look for boat balance.
All boats are good at one thing but usually not the other. Some go uphill, others go down. An all rounder rarely wins anything IMHO. Are you significantly faster than your approximately matched (handicap) competitors at any given point of sail/wind strength / sea condition?
Have you talked with your sailmaker?
I agree that just adding weight to the keel without doing the maths is pretty pointless. Without a detailed assessment, you will just add more IRC rating points for the extra weight anyway.

Now I remember why I gave up racing..
Jim

 

[oldharry]

[ QUOTE ]
increase weight by say 50-70 Kgs. preferably without increasing draught (already 1.90 metres) .

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way of increasing the weight without affecting the draught and waterline length, unless you can invent some means of adding buoyancy. Increasing weight must make the boat lie deeper in the water. However, 70 kgs is only the weight of a largish crew gorilla, so would not make much difference.

I would be looking closely first as others have suggested, at the rig to see if poorly cut, baggy sails and out of tune rig are the culprits - which is more than likely. Badly setting sails destroy any chance of realistic windward performance.

Have a look at www.kempsails.com which has a definitive guide to the basics of setting and fine tuning sails.

Basically as the wind rises the sails need to be proportionately set flatter, so that an old baggy main giving a full draft to its leading edge will work fine in light airs (as yours does) but loses out completely as the wind rises giving heavy heeling and weather helm without providing drive.

Personally I would not mess around with hull/keel shapes. If the hull form does not allow you to do what you expect, then trying to mess about with it usually only makes matters worse, at considerable cost, and knocks the resale value as well.

Like with cars, you buy the car that does best what you want - rather than trying to modify it.

 

[Robin]

I've not sailed an Elan but there are several 295s and 33s racing out of our club and every winter sees one or more of them making changes to rudder profiles behind tents to keep in the heat for the epoxy work. It would seem that they have control problems in windy/gusty conditions? I wouldn't risk serious mods without expert advice because you may go outside of the one design rules and/or screw your ratings let alone any effect on resale values. Poor sails may contribute but on the boats in our club that is highly unlikely as their sails are high tech money no object ones, so it would seem there is a lack perhaps of rudder area or depth that shows up in gusty conditions and there is a reluctance to reef early when racing.

 

[backstay]

[ QUOTE ]
However, 70 kgs is only the weight of a largish crew gorilla, so would not make much difference.

[/ QUOTE ] only 70 Kgs? you must be using baby gorillas or at the very most adolescents. My "crew" weigh in at around 100Kg each and that is for the lighter ones.

 

[oldharry]

Good going Backstay: lets hang a couple on Jims keel so he can see whether it works better or not!