Laying-up - What's different with a classic?

JesseLoynes

JesseLoynes

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Emsworth, Hampshire
www.arboryachts.co.uk
Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Last year, in order to transfer our boat to it's winter lay-up state, I simply didn't go sailing for 5 months! that was a GRP dinghy!

We now have our lovely little 6 ton Hillyard, and I've got to make the full effort.

I know there are loads of books, checklists and posts on laying up your boat for the winter; but I wondered if anyone thought there were any extra points that should be applied to classic/wooden boats.

I believe I'm already sufficiently paranoid about freshwater and stale air. I'm just about to fit some outer boxes to allow me to keep a couple of portholes open all winter.

I wondered if anyone had gained any useful practices from experience of previous years?

Thanks for any tips, Jess.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

A previously-well-respected forumite gave me the good tip (that apparently originated from Herreschoff). That is to clean the inside of the boat and flush out with fresh water - yes, fresh water. The rationalle is that you flush all the salt out of the bilges thus making the boat a lot drier in the long term.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Interesting, hadn't thought the salt would hold much moisture, but I suppose it would if all else is dry.

She's actually staying in the water over the winter. She slowly taken up all summer, and there's been nothing to pump out now for more than 2 months! Not keen to start lifting her around and drying her out!
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

When in the water I used to have her connected up to power and a 100W light bulb in the engine bay. Otherwise, engine service, fresh air, a good cover to keep most of the rain off, but not block airflow. Visit her once a month to check her over. Have a cup of tea, warm her up, mourn the lack of sailing and go home. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

That idea is contradicted by Howard Chappelle, who describes how wooden boats would have salt boxes fitted under the shelves into which rock salt was placed. A salt laden atmosphere apparently acts as a timber preservative.

All I know about fresh water is that, apart from spoiling whisky, it rots timber.

I have also read somewhere of fishermen throwing handfuls of salt into the bilges "to pickle 'er".
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Correct on all points Ken, regarding fresh water, there is no such thing!..............











Fish fornicate in it you know! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

A sensible addition to my previous post, I have a friend in Sweden, that places a bucket of sea salt in the fore cabin of his boat every winter, he changes it out about once every couple of months, he says that it keeps his boat dry, and that it is common practice were he sails from.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

I am not saying keep fresh water in the bilges. Just use it flush through and mop out with a sponge afterwards. Even under a winter cover you will be surprised how quickly the bilges dry out.

Pickling loads of salt in the bilges is a fine practice in working boats, but you will never have a dry boat. On a yacht, I prefer a dry boat, and a dry boat does not rot.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Interestingly, the John Rylands Library in Manchester stored its collection of several million books in a Cheshire salt mine for 3 years; because the environment was "dry and stable".

Also mast and spar timber used to be stored for years in saltwater prior to being used. There is still a mast pound in Portsmouth dockyard.

Good stuff, salt! [As long as you don't eat it, apparently]
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

[ QUOTE ]
Clean the inside of the boat and flush out with fresh water - yes, fresh water. The rationalle is that you flush all the salt out of the bilges thus making the boat a lot drier in the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely, I have sailed an open wooden day boat for some years and that of course gets lots of salty water inside during the season, if I fail to rinse all the inside with fresh when laying up then, come the spring, there is a damp sticky layer over the whole inside.
This makes rubbing down and painting impossible.

If I wash off the internal timber it is then bone dry in the spring.

You need a good cover and lots of ventilation as well.

In a cruiser of course you don't expect to get all the inside wet with salt water, but it can spread a fair bit from the bilges in rough weather?
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

I am sure if you have huge amounts of salt and a small amount of damp stuff i.e. books in a salt mine, then it can work like silica-gel does in modern electronics packaging, and absorb dampness. This, I presume, is why Smiffy's Scandanavian friend changes the bucket full of rock-salt every two months; once saturated it will just keep the cabin damp.

With boats where there is a little salt around and a lot of water - so the tables are turned. Anybody who has done any serious passage-making will know that the minute you have a wet interior on a boat it will remain damp until you wash the salt out of the clothes, upholstery, and as I suggest, the bilges - even if you do have a wooden boat.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody who has done any serious passage-making will know that the minute you have a wet interior on a boat it will remain damp until you wash the salt out of the clothes, upholstery, and as I suggest, the bilges - even if you do have a wooden boat.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice. Before I take off to do some "serious passage-making", it looks like I'll have to budget for, and also find room for, a freshwater maker so that I can do all this washing!
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Salt preserves wood. Think about it - nothing grows in an over salty environment - not even nasty, rot bugs.

To tie in with another thread, many old boats were 'salted'. This usually meant filling the void between the hull and ceiling with rock salt. William McCann/City of Edinboro was one - and her first Lloyds inspection giving details has survived.

Good stuff salt. I only have one reservation about salt (and borates). If you use a water soluble preservative - then that preservative must also be able to be washed out of the wood by water. An oil based preservative - Cuprinol 5 Star for example - is oil based and therefore likely to remain in the wood when the boat is afloat. Unless anyone knows different... OF
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

I keep a little salt water in the bilges. This, I am reliably told, stops the garboard strakes from drying out while ashore with the concommitant problems in the spring at re-launch. A week or so before launch flush bilges with loads of fresh water to romove the salt and leave to dry. Re-launch as soon as.
I always have an inch or two of water in the deepest part of the bilge, the volume about that of a small tea cup. I am sure that I cannot completely drain the bilge as the water runs back into the bilge down the hoses after pumping out as the outlet is about 3 feet above the bilge. As soon as I have substantially completed the interior re-fit I am going to try and get a mud berth at the club so she can stay good and wet over the lay-up period.
Loads of fun these wooden boats!
Have fun
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

My Hilly will be on the mooring for a while yet... one of the regular jobs is to flush through the bilges with a bucket of sea water to make sure there are no pools of fresh. However, if I was ashore for a while I would prolly wash down with fresh water IF I could be sure of getting her properly dry and keeping her that way.
As for ventilation, a flower pot on the outside of a porthole held in place with bungee lets you leave the light open while keeping out mink and other undesireables.
Cat litter (unused) takes a lot of moisture out of the air inside lockers and other enclosed spaces.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Cheers all for the pointers...

Ruthie is actually staying in her mud berth all winter, bar the shortest possible period (less than 2 weeks) in the spring for painting.

All the best!
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

[ QUOTE ]
An oil based preservative - Cuprinol 5 Star for example - is oil based and therefore likely to remain in the wood when the boat is afloat. Unless anyone knows different... OF


[/ QUOTE ]
I had wondered about spraying a bit of Cuprinol around in the hope of discouraging rot. I am assuming that the cuprinol would find its way around the bilge paint and settle in the low spots where I guess it is most needed. Is this a good idea / bad idea? Any experiences greatly received. Wind Song is out of the water, covered and vented as best as possible though there are places without much air movement.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

Well oil based preservatives have been used for years - Stockholm Tar is a good example, and this is what I used to bed in Roach's keel and coat the under-mast chain locker. I can't see a reason not to use it.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

[ QUOTE ]
had wondered about spraying a bit of Cuprinol around in the hope of discouraging rot. Is this a good idea / bad idea? Any experiences greatly received.

[/ QUOTE ]

Years ago I sprayed some Cuprinol under the stairs at home to discourage dry rot. I don't know what it did for the wood but it did not do me much good! It contains something called pentachloraphenol [banned in the USA] which is very harmful. I would respectfully suggest you find out what safety precautions you need to take and adhere to them.
 
Re: Laying-up - What\'s different with a classic?

[ QUOTE ]
find out what safety precautions you need to take

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. It might be a bit iffy in a confined area.

The Cuprinol web site says: Cuprinol 5 Star Complete Wood Treatment (FP) contains propiconazole and flurox. Means nothing to me so I'll read the tin before buying.
Does anyone know where Stockholm Tar sit on the nastiness scale?
 
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