Latest thoughts on toilet smell management !!

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bluetooth

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On previous boat had cheap and effective unit from Force 4 that was plumbed into sea water intake. There was a small reservoir that you put some blue tablets in which made significant difference to the whiff.
Looking to do something similar on new boat but cant find the unit now - think it was Webasco.

The SeaSmart Sanitiser is about treble the price and the cartridges seem an annual job.

Any other options out there?

Also considering changing the plumbing to use freshwater instead of saltwater.

Many thanks
 
I flush with fresh water and have done so since shortly after buying my first boat.
In my case this is simply achieved using the shower hose to put water in the loo.

I also use some chemical such as Elsan Blue . However this is rather toxic so I may change to some other product in due course.
 
I converted both toilets to flush on fresh water and it has transformed the boat.

In our case, the whole process was really easy, as the toilets were already electric flush and the pumps for drawing sea water were located in the vanity units. For some reason, Trader had also fitted a take off point on the cold fresh water circuit under the basin with a ball valve on it, but it would be easy enough to 'T' into the cold water supply.

I looked on the RS website and bought two of these: Hydralectric Solenoid Valve 72003, 2 port , NC, 12 V dc, 1/2in , Stock No. 342-023 - sorry, I tried pasting the url straight in, but it went on forever - and some female 1/2" BSP hose tails.

All I had to do was remove the pump, locate the new valve in the vanity unit, fit a length of hose from the fresh water take off to the inlet side of the new valve, connect the outlet side of the valve to the hose going to the toilet flush and use the electrical supply to the redundant pump to operate the new valve.

Now, when I press the 'flush' or 'fill' buttons, instead of the pump running, the new valve opens and allows fresh water to pass into the pan. You do of course need to have the fresh water pump turned on.

I don't see any need for a check valve as the toilet end of the system is open, so there isn't any potential to draw anything back into the fresh water system.

The only down side I can see, would be if the electric valve stuck open or didn't close properly, then you could get fresh water being pumped into the toilet until either: you noticed water on the floor of the heads, your tank ran dry or the sound of the fresh water pump constantly cycling alerted you to the fact there was a problem.

I've removed the redundant hoses from the old pumps to the sea cocks and blanked them off for now. I'm going to use the fwd skin fitting to supply a new deck wash pump I'm going to fit for washing down the anchor and chain and will probably remove the aft one when she's out of the water next and have the hole filled.

This is a really worth while project that if you have electric toilets already, is both easy and cheap to do. :cool:

Andy
 
Andy Cox said:
I converted both toilets to flush on fresh water and it has transformed the boat.

In our case, the whole process was really easy, as the toilets were already electric flush and the pumps for drawing sea water were located in the vanity units. For some reason, Trader had also fitted a take off point on the cold fresh water circuit under the basin with a ball valve on it, but it would be easy enough to 'T' into the cold water supply.

I looked on the RS website and bought two of these: Hydralectric Solenoid Valve 72003, 2 port , NC, 12 V dc, 1/2in , Stock No. 342-023 - sorry, I tried pasting the url straight in, but it went on forever - and some female 1/2" BSP hose tails.

All I had to do was remove the pump, locate the new valve in the vanity unit, fit a length of hose from the fresh water take off to the inlet side of the new valve, connect the outlet side of the valve to the hose going to the toilet flush and use the electrical supply to the redundant pump to operate the new valve.

Now, when I press the 'flush' or 'fill' buttons, instead of the pump running, the new valve opens and allows fresh water to pass into the pan. You do of course need to have the fresh water pump turned on.

I don't see any need for a check valve as the toilet end of the system is open, so there isn't any potential to draw anything back into the fresh water system.

The only down side I can see, would be if the electric valve stuck open or didn't close properly, then you could get fresh water being pumped into the toilet until either: you noticed water on the floor of the heads, your tank ran dry or the sound of the fresh water pump constantly cycling alerted you to the fact there was a problem.

I've removed the redundant hoses from the old pumps to the sea cocks and blanked them off for now. I'm going to use the fwd skin fitting to supply a new deck wash pump I'm going to fit for washing down the anchor and chain and will probably remove the aft one when she's out of the water next and have the hole filled.

This is a really worth while project that if you have electric toilets already, is both easy and cheap to do. :cool:

Andy
Click to expand...
Andy, so you are saying that there is no need for a holding tank for the toilet water. You can get it straight from the fresh water tank?
 
Bouba said:
Andy, so you are saying that there is no need for a holding tank for the toilet water. You can get it straight from the fresh water tank?
Click to expand...

A holding tank suggests black waste. We are talking the fresh water inlet here. But if you use the syphon break valve I did you can go straight from the fresh pressurised supply to the loo, no separate fresh tank or fresh water pump needed.
 
Bouba said:
Andy, so you are saying that there is no need for a holding tank for the toilet water. You can get it straight from the fresh water tank?
Click to expand...

Bouba, I'm assuming that when you say 'holding tank' you're not referring to the waste side but a separate tank to supply fresh water to the loos.

Yes, you're correct, I'm flushing the toilets with water from the main freshwater tank. Of course, it does mean you'll be refilling your freshwater tank more frequently, but for me that's a small price to pay for the significant improvement in the air quality on board!

Andy
 
Elessar said:
yes. I put a tecma in the forward loo and converted the aft loo.

Just get one of these https://www.asap-supplies.com/jabsco-toilet-siphon-breaker-solenoid-37038-1024

And blank off the salt inlet. Not need for expensive chemicals you'll never go back to salt flush.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the need for the syphon brake valve? The flush port on the pan is open to atmosphere and the valve has 40 psi on the other side of it. How can toilet water back flow into the system?

Andy
 
Andy Cox said:
Bouba, I'm assuming that when you say 'holding tank' you're not referring to the waste side but a separate tank to supply fresh water to the loos.

Yes, you're correct, I'm flushing the toilets with water from the main freshwater tank. Of course, it does mean you'll be refilling your freshwater tank more frequently, but for me that's a small price to pay for the significant improvement in the air quality on board!

Andy
Click to expand...
Yes, sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I meant header tank or cistern. Can you be absolutely sure that there is no contamination back tracking from the toilet to the fresh water supply? This is an upgrade I think about a lot but the creation of another tank is a diy plumbing job that is too much for my ability, so I’m very interested in your set up
 
As I said in my last post, I don't understand the need for a syphon break.

However, this thread has got me thinking about it and although I can't see how it would happen - I'm happy for someone to explain the physics to me - I think I will fit a check valve in the supply before the new valve as a 'belt 'n' braces measure. I've just looked online and can see a brass check valve and a couple of hose tails will be under a tenner, so the electric valve with a check valve in the system is under £25.

I don't feel the need to pay the thick end of £120 for something doing the same job but branded as Jabsco.

I'm always more than happy for someone to prove me wrong though, so if someone out there can explain why the syphon break is needed then I'm all ears :encouragement:

Andy
 
Bouba said:
Andy, so you are saying that there is no need for a holding tank for the toilet water. You can get it straight from the fresh water tank?
Click to expand...
I've had the loo flush pipe plumbed with a T piece to the cold water feed for the sink. Works OK and no pong at all … just need to make sure the fresh water tank is topped up.
 
I converted my three heads to fresh water - 3 x plastic jugs from
Amazon left by the sinks :)
Shut the salt water seacocks, bled the seawater from the system - (that’s where the smell comes from).

Total cost was around $10.

Main reason for doing it was the calcification in the macerator and pipes - massive build up and awful job to fix when blocked.

Fresh water is the way to go - whichever way you do it......

When we sell the boat in a few years it will be easy to convert back ;)
 
Andy Cox said:
I'm not sure I understand the need for the syphon brake valve? The flush port on the pan is open to atmosphere and the valve has 40 psi on the other side of it. How can toilet water back flow into the system?

Andy
Click to expand...

Contaminated water toilet side of the pipe, 0 psi fresh side when the pump is off. Change of temperature and you could suck bacteria into your fresh water.
 
Elessar said:
Contaminated water toilet side of the pipe, 0 psi fresh side when the pump is off. Change of temperature and you could suck bacteria into your fresh water.
Click to expand...

Indeed - on the assumption that you would not run your finger round the top of the toilet bowel and then wipe it round inside our cup, you probably should not be connecting the pipe supplying the flush water directly to your fresh water supply without taking some steps to block the path back for bacteria.
 
Elessar said:
Contaminated water toilet side of the pipe, 0 psi fresh side when the pump is off. Change of temperature and you could suck bacteria into your fresh water.
Click to expand...

But surely, the electric valve being closed creates a mechanical block to prevent water or bacteria from travelling backwards. Especially so if there is a check valve fitted in the supply line as well?
 
maby said:
Indeed - on the assumption that you would not run your finger round the top of the toilet bowel and then wipe it round inside our cup, you probably should not be connecting the pipe supplying the flush water directly to your fresh water supply without taking some steps to block the path back for bacteria.
Click to expand...

I agree with your assumption, but what makes a siphon break better at preventing bacteria from going backwards than a closed valve and a check valve?

I think good hygiene, regularly using a suitable anti bacterial cleaner in the toilet helps mitigate any risk. Also, although we treat our water with Aqua Sol every time the tank is filled, which is claimed to kill all water borne bacteria, we don't drink water from the tank other than from the kettle, instead keeping a good supply of bottled water on board for drinking :encouragement:

If I felt there was any risk of contamination of the fresh water supply then I wouldn't do it.

Andy
 
I think unlike a house where there is a constant water flow, a boat can sit for months without use and without electricity to pressurize the system. Add the heat and I’m not yet convinced that a direct connection to the fresh water supply is completely safe. But for ease of installation, I wish it were
 
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