Laptops v Dedicated Instruments

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Ohdrat

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Looking at other threads there seem to be quite a few peeps who use a laptop on board.. and I have a number of Q's about them..

Are they 2nd hand / not good for anything else so might as well wreck it on board laptops or are they up to date current spec?

What software do you run on it and do you use this instead of say fixed gps etc .. what software do you think works for coastal cruising .. do you interface instruments with the laptop?

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GPS Groupjust for this ...

http://www.sping.com/seaclear/ and I recc'd this ... up to humoungusly expenisve stuff .... like Maxsea / CMap93 etc.

Fixed GPS - by this you should mean plotter - as that is only competition to a PC based system - and most will not offer same levels of facility ..... but are normally splash-proof / waterprotected - where PC is not.

All in all - you do not need high-faluting / expensive gear .... eg : I use a second-hand Celeron 500 notebook with Garmin eTrex via data / power cable ..... total about £400 incl. charts ... Beauty is .... should PC fail ...... data cable, eTrex + PC hard drive goes to next machine and I carry on ..... of course back-ups on CD as well.

Join the group and ask .......




<hr width=100% size=1>Cheers Nigel ..... <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.geocities.com/solentlifeuk/>http://www.geocities.com/solentlifeuk/</A>
 
My laptop is a 200MHz machine with Windows ME , but I have upgraded it with 96MHz of RAM and a new hard drive of 20Gb (ebay). System would not accept a hard drive larger than 12GB, so I had to partition the hard drive to get the full capability. I also exchanged the CD for a CDwriter(ebay). All of these changes made quite a difference to the speed of the machine, and also gave me the space for charts, pilots, tech manuals, mp3, weatherfax, and provide lots of space to store photos from the digital camera. Screen is only 12", but is a lot larger than my plotter. I use a USB GPS mouse(ebay) and this leaves the serial slot free for other input/output, and I use a DC/DC converter(Maplin) to drive it either onboard or in the car (using MS autoroute). This laptop is ok for wordprocessing, but well out of date for serious work, and is now entering a new lease of life.

I dont interface any other instruments other than the GPS, as this is better done by the plotter. It does provide a great back up for the plotter, and is a much better planning platform.

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I have a torch
Robosaurus 004.jpg


which I bought <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=wanted&Number=602776&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&part=>here</A>.. many thanks Boatone aka TonyR

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many thanks 2 sensible replies out of 4... but I guess I should have expected trouble..

1 further Q is I currently have the most basic of systems.. speedo/log and depth with a garmin 76 given that I'm not about to get plotter and laptop this year which would you get first.. laptop and software or plotter?

I've never used a plotter and on seriously used gps once before.. most of my nav / pilotage has been done on paper charts etc

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Personal opinion, the plotter located where you can see it from the helm is a great addition to the boat especially if you are doing short handed coastal work, and was my first priority. Just remember that they claim that these are all supplements to normal navigation! Personally, I keep a close eye on the comparison between echo sounder and chart position, and also that the GPS is still showing us in the right area! I also did the plan on a paper chart (now on the laptop) and kept this available. Some laptop systems allow you to DR, so even if GPS fails, you can revert to normal navigation techniques

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I see you bought one then!
That Claymore's determined to meet 'Black Spot' ent he.


<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://colvicownersclub.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk>http://colvicownersclub.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk</A>
 
I use whatever my current notebook is and have never worried about its health and have never had a problem (40 foot dry boat). I have also used a conventional desktop PC on board and again have never had a problem.

Our electronic charting system (Endeavour Navigator) is one developed for small commercial vessels (which despite that is less than 1/2 the price of those aimed at the pleasure market /forums/images/icons/crazy.gif) but only uses official raster and vector charts eg UKHO, Maptech, etc. It is oriented to doing the charting job well and does not have all the bells and whistles that amateur sailors have time to play with.

All instruments (wind, depth, compass, log), GPS and autopilot are interfaced with it. However, being a system aimed at commercial vessels it does not read non gyro compasses and we never use the Autopilot interface - that because we navigate strategically and modify the plan along the way according to tide, wind, other traffic, etc; it is easier to just punch the new heading into the autopilot than to worry about waypoints. For distance to run, etc waypoints do not add any advantage on an ECS as that information is only ever one mouse click away as is the measurement of distance and bearing to dangers, etc.

If the GPS fails one can revert to conventional nav on the electronic charts. One has a full set of chart tools so can draw out bearings, measure distances, etc and that more easily than on a paper chart.

I strongly support Nigel in his suggesting trying SeaClear, at least if only to get an idea of how you feel about PC based systems. I did that to start with some years ago (which is easy for us as scans of NZ official charts are available free off the internet) and have never looked back.

Also, in my view, the claims made about PC heavy power usage are greatly exaggerated. We have plenty of power on board so have never worried unduly but have measured it - for a 1 point something GHz machine it was only slightly over 1 amp once battery charging was completed (the extra current used for battery charging is, however, stored energy which is not lost) - that was on a machine where the hard disk was writing continuously (being commercial our ECS logs every NMEA sentence received to the hard drive, so it is always busy).

If you enjoy navigating and like to plan while underway then I think you will appreciate a notebook. If you just like to set out along a waypointed route (very inefficient in a sailboat), feel you can navigate properly on a miniscule screen without charting tools, do not have a dry boat, or do not have room for a notebook then a plotter is the best solution but it will not replace the need for parallel paper chart work while in pilotage. Also as far as I am aware there are no charts available for recreational plotters that are approved for navigation (and they all come with notices that they are not). Official charts are, obviously, approved for navigation.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.
 
I have had a series of laptops and much prefer them to a plotter but it depends on what or where you are sailing I think. they seem to have a life span of around 3 years blue water cruising....

My laptops have Cmap intergrated with gps. It also runs sailmail, JVcom and will download met charts via the SSB... But all this is possibly not really needed for weekend - holiday sailing. It is really useful to be able to access Cmap with a known postion and work out a route - fast - much faster than pen and paper..

If I were just local sailing then I think a chart plotter is probably the way to go but the ability to work out altenative routes very fast is definatly a minus I think..

<hr width=100% size=1>If you have time please visit my web site -
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing>http://www.michaelbriant.com/sailing</A>
 
Grundy-vision ... ??!!

ah'm nae sure that ah'd be showing a lady thon ....

anyway ... some sensible advice heretofore and subject to usual caveat emptors etc ... whatever laptop you buy, the older Win 98 etc tend to have more robust casing, can be bought cheaply and can be driven direct from the boat's 12volt supply. oh and, having destroyed 3 previously, i finally learnt the lesson to secure it solidly. they don't bounce too well .....

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Big advantage of charts on laptop is with a small printer you can print of all your passage and harbour plan charts just in case it all goes pear shaped halfway through a passage. They're all A4 size so fit neatly in a small plastic wallet, we coulkd then use them as pilot charts in the cockpit....and always a paper update every hour or so.
Our laptop in a clear plastic bag survived several dousings....and is now my spare at work. The dedicated cockpit stuff nearly all suffered water ingress including two hand held Garmin gps's, and subsequently failed.


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Bomb proof, not quite but close
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/panasonictoughbooklaptopcf27.html>http://www.sterlingxs.co.uk/scpages/panasonictoughbooklaptopcf27.html</A>
Less than £200

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I wish I'd been born rich instead of good looking ?
 
V nice little laptop, but only a 266 MHz. Furthermore, Magnesium and fresh water are fine, but salt water is a different matter.

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Re: Grundy-vision ... ??!!

My son ran an elderly Mac Classic on a North Sea oil rig safety boat, 3 months on, 3 months off. Voltage supply full of spikes, varied between around 100 and 270. No problems whatsoever. Anybody who has been on or seen a safety boat on station will recognise this as a robust test platform.

No idea with respect to second raters (i.e. p.cs).

<hr width=100% size=1>GBW
 
Mac classic ...

jings ... they get everywhere. is that the one with 400hp long shaft or short shaft outboard? not surprised electrics a bit dodgy ... !!

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