Kiss Of Life Not Required In CPR (Unless Trained)

[Deleted member 36384]

This was raised by the trainer when I revalidated my First Aid Certificate two years ago. Apparently the blood has sufficient oxygen in it for quite a while, so just pumping the heart via compressions is better than less compressions and fiddling about with mouth to mouth.

However, if you are trained and know what to do, then continue with compressions and mouth to mouth transfer in CPR.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16222183

Worth just copying the whole article: -

The British Heart Foundation is urging people to forget "mouth-to-mouth" and to concentrate on chest compressions when performing CPR.

"Hands-only CPR" has previously been supported by the Resuscitation Council (UK).

But it is now being promoted in a new advertising campaign featuring footballer-turned-actor Vinnie Jones.

New polling by the BHF suggests many feel worried about the idea of giving the "kiss of life".

The official position of the BHF is now that anyone who does not have CPR training should ignore the kiss of life in favour of hard and fast compressions in the centre of the chest.

A new poll conducted across the UK and involving 2,000 respondents showed nearly half were put off from performing CPR because of a lack of knowledge.

Continue reading the main story
“
Start Quote

The kiss of life can often be daunting for untrained bystanders who want to help when someone has collapsed with a cardiac arrest”

Ellen Mason
British Heart Foundation
A fifth worried specifically about the thought of the kiss of life or about contracting an infectious disease.

Four in 10 people were worried about being sued if they did something wrong, even though the BHF argues no such case has ever succeeded in Britain.

"The kiss of life can often be daunting for untrained bystanders who want to help when someone has collapsed with a cardiac arrest," said Ellen Mason, senior cardiac nurse at the BHF.

She said the kiss of life remained the "gold standard" of CPR, but added if a person had not had training the best option would be to just do chest compressions.

Bee Gees hit
The BHF is also suggesting people hum to the Bee Gees hit Stayin' Alive, to get the tempo of chest compressions right, although others have in recent months questioned whether this is appropriate, suggesting it may lead to compressions which are too shallow.

The new BHF advert features Vinnie Jones in his traditional hardman guise, administering chest compressions to a Bee Gees backbeat after being thrown an unconscious body by his henchmen.


Ellen Mason, a senior cardiac nurse with the British Heart Foundation, shows how to perform CPR without "kissing"
Commenting on the new campaign, he said: "There really shouldn't be any messing about when it comes to CPR. If you're worried about the kiss of life just forget it and push hard and fast in the centre of the chest.

"Hands-only CPR should give have-a-go heroes the confidence to step in and help when somebody is in cardiac arrest."

Ms Mason said everyone should learn what to do: "Thirty thousand people have a cardiac arrest in the UK every single year and half of those are witnessed, but in most cases no-one acts, no-one knows what to do, people panic.

"If it was us, we would all want our loved ones and ourselves to be saved, wouldn't we?"

 

[Searush]

Saw it on TV this morning. The guy they are using as an example of "how to save someone" actually was trained & used the full 10 compressions to 1 breath technique.

Still the message is simple & important. Making sure the airway is clear & tilting the head back takes a bit longer to explain & many tv watchers can't hold their attention span that long. Vinnie's little cameo is quite entertaining. "First get your person who is not breathing - here's one I prepared earlier"

1 in ten survive, & 1 in 3 get CPR. They are hoping to double the survival rates.

 

[Sniper]

used the full 10 compressions to 1 breath technique.
.

Just want to check that this is irony?

 

[Searush]

Just want to check that this is irony?

Can you offer a better icon?

 

[SAMYL]

The most important bit of resuscitation and the first thing to do is to call an ambulance, often forgotten in the panic.

 

[Daedelus]

It changed from 1 in 10 to 2 in 30.

 

[Daedelus]

Vinnie Jones saying "only kiss your missus on the lips" brought back memories of my wedding reception. As brand new SWMBO and I are leaving the DJ from the disco calls all the women to stand in one long line and all the men in another.
SWMBO has to go down the male line being kissed by them while I went down the female line. Bit embarrassing she finished about 5 minutes before I did and stands watching as my old girl friends and all her mates get quite enthusiastic.

 

[graham]

Did a first aid refresher course recently. The ratio compressions to breaths is now 30 to 2 .The trainer did say if you are unable/ unwilling to give breaths then continue uninterrupted compressions.

What struck me is how hard it is to maintain the recommended rate of 100 to 120 compressions/ minute.We also tried different methods for doing compressions in a confined space (very appropriate to a boat) One method is to straddle the persons waist / chest kneeling one leg each side obviously keeping your weight off them then doing compressions from that position.

Unfortunately people rarely have heart failure or drown on classroom floors.

 

[Sniper]

Can you offer a better icon?

, No, sorry - my question was intended to check that you knew that 10-1 was the incorrect ratio. No slight intended!

 

[claymore]

When involved in the actual process, the numbers and ratios don't mean much. Just pump and breath as best you can. No-one was ever lost by getting the numbers wrong.
Airway
Breathing
Circulation.


If you didn't check it in this order but just started chest pumping there is a good chance that false teeth or foreign body may lodge in the throat which would not improve prospects much.

 

[Sniper]

As one who does this for a living in an ambulance, I offer the following suggestions in addition to what has been said:

1) The greater emphasis on slightly faster and slightly deeper compressions is indeed tiring, which is why we try to change 'operator' every two minutes if possible. Even if no-one else around has been formally trained, if there is a willing bystander you can still get them doing compressions reasonably effectively while you have a breather (obviously, if you are on your own, you don't have this luxury)

2) Splitting hairs perhaps, but in confined spaces (or anywhere else for that matter) we tend to kneel at the head end when possible. This allows airway management to be maintained by the same person while at the same time keeping the torso clear for the application of defibrillator pads.

3) One final observation on the Vinnie Jones video; he says keep going until the ambulance arrives. Actually, please keep going even after the ambulance has arrived! You'd be amazed how many people stop doing good compressions as soon as we appear. If you carry on, it gives us vital seconds to get our gear organised and work out what is going on.

 

[ProDave]

Gosh how things have changed.

When I first did a CPR course 30 odd years ago it was 5 compressions then one breath.

 

[Searush]

, No, sorry - my question was intended to check that you knew that 10-1 was the incorrect ratio. No slight intended!

My first aid cert expired 25 years ago when various employers decided they would not fund the training. Cheap way of keeping sickness costs down I would have thought, but hey ho.

Thank you for updating me, but I doubt I will remember the new 30:2 ratio now.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

Gosh how things have changed.

When I first did a CPR course 30 odd years ago it was 5 compressions then one breath.

Haven't they just, I've been teaching it for 20 years now and re-certified advanced life support last month.
I did once have to do it for real outside a clinical setting some 23 years ago, hoo boy, the most difficult bit was deciding to do the full monty, kiss of life and all. What got to me later was that it happened 150 yards from the casualty dept of the hospital I was working at and it took 19 minutes for the ambulance to arrive, it'd have been quicker to stuff the poor guy in my car and drive him to the ambulance entrance. I think he had had a massive MI and doubt we could have saved him, but I felt better for having given it evrything I had. It was exhausting even after a passer by took over the compressions 8 minutes in.

Oh, and some heartless scrote took his beer and fish and chip supper while we tried to save him. That actually left a worse taste in my mouth than the mouth-to-mouth.

 

[Searush]

(snip)
Oh, and some heartless scrote took his beer and fish and chip supper while we tried to save him. That actually left a worse taste in my mouth than the mouth-to-mouth.

It seemed a shame to let it get cold & go to waste, anyway, I was hungry.

 

[Thistle]

This was raised by the trainer when I revalidated my First Aid Certificate two years ago. Apparently the blood has sufficient oxygen in it for quite a while, so just pumping the heart via compressions is better than less compressions and fiddling about with mouth to mouth.

However, if you are trained and know what to do, then continue with compressions and mouth to mouth transfer in CPR.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16222183

See here for the current definitive algorithm issued IIRC October 2010. There has been a gradually increasing emphasis on compressions over the last few issues of the Guidelines. You can see the full guidelines here.

Why not print out a copy and stick it on the office wall or beside the coffee machine? A copy of the choking algorithm might be worthwhile too. Keep your fingers crossed that you never have to use them or have them applied to yourself.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

It seemed a shame to let it get cold & go to waste, anyway, I was hungry.

Strangely enough, it WAS nearly Xmas.....were you in your alter ego costume

 

[Juan Twothree]

What struck me is how hard it is to maintain the recommended rate of 100 to 120 compressions/ minute.

Try singing "Nellie the Elephant" whilst doing the compressions.

Not only does it give you a good speed, but you don't need to count while you're doing them. Two choruses will give you 31 compressions, which is near enough as makes no odds.

 

[vyv_cox]

Try singing "Nellie the Elephant" whilst doing the compressions.

Not only does it give you a good speed, but you don't need to count while you're doing them. Two choruses will give you 31 compressions, which is near enough as makes no odds.

That's the one I was taught. Not as entertaining as the BeeGees 'Staying alive' on the Vinnie video, with his heavies dancing in the background.