Kim Hollamby/Michael Fish types...

[amf]

...required for long range weather forecasting skills.

OK, me and SWMBO have a week in Dartmouth booked the week after next. After our recent MBM cruise to the Channel Islands we feel confident enough to take the boat (a Sealine S23). Now I have read all the threads re: Portland Bill and the other headlands to watch out for and I am therefore putting effort into passage planning to get the tides right.

We have allowed ourselves Weds/Thurs/Fri next week to get there so we have a chance of getting a weather window. At the moment I have two routes planned. If weather looks good for one day we will go direct to Dartmouth (from Port Solent) giving Portland Bill a wide berth. Otherwise we will do Weymouth and the inside passge of Portland Bill.

The main reassurance on the MBM cruise was Kim and his legendary weather forecasting skills. I know it's a bit early and it depends on the complexity of the weather systems, but does anyone have a long term view on the weather back end of next week?

My go/no go criteria at the moment is F2/3 or less and weather not looking too crap for the following week.

Anyone else going West next week? Any other advice for a westcountry virgin (in a small boat) would be most appreciated!

Cheers

Andrew

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[bca]

Hello Andrew

We were also on the MBM cruise to the CI and witnessed the soaking you both got coming out of Guernsey.

We have been to Dartmouth several times and in good weather it is a superb place to visit. Darthaven Marina have a decent web site that includes links to some interesting weather sites. They will always give you a local forecast over the phone.

Other thoughts are that if you use the inside passage around Portland you must get the time right (read the Channel Pilot) and it can still be a little bumpy.

Have a good trip.

Barry & Jo Adams (Esther)

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[longjohnsilver]

Wednesday of next week is looking good at the moment, F 2-3 Westerly, Thursday not so good, 4-5 SW.

Take a look at windguru.cz It's about the most accurate for wind direction and strength that I've seen anywhere on the web. Enjoy your stay in Dartmouth.

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[tcm]

hi. Here's some ideas

1. You need a tidal atlas to make sure the wind and tide are going in the same direction.

2. use google for wetterzentrale.de - i think this gives nicer indication that windguru - the synopitics for next week are okish.

3. Set off early as poss in the mornings, which gives lotos of options regarding turning back etc. But note that you have 16 hours of daylight, only 100 or so miles. Even getting to Poole or Yarmouth is a good start. From poole, wang straight out and then you can turn right if okish, or left and turn back in. Look at pilot books regarding st albands head - often the worst bit and a "barrier" for solenties.

4. When you have turned back just once, you feel ok about doing it anytime.

5. With a 23, you could just get it trucked to dartmouth anyway, not too expensive if you discount the fuel saved. Longterm for july is "unsettled" but dartmouth is one of the best harbour entrances anywhere in europe in my humble opinion.

6. If you can't possibly head east, then Deauville is totally secret from the brits, it seems, and much more downwind, massive beach right behind the beach, very smart and top place.

7. You can sneak eastwards via north channel towards poole, st albans a bit ouch but then inland towards weymouth, nip round portland bill a bit ouch but then inshore around lyme bay. The more north in the wind, the safer a trip in higher winds - cos it is offshore so coast-hugging will work.

8. You too can gain legendary weather forecasting skills. One useful hint is to telephone the destination marinas for their own local forecast - or "nowcast" - and factor this in. Makes a big difference if it is "now" f4ish or f2 ish, and often forecasts don't quite differentiate.

9. On your way out of Port Solent, DO NOT wang into that big weird looking boat with the crappy cover on the inner waiting pontoon, cos it's mine and i'm on it right now.






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[kimhollamby]

Chill pill time

Nothing you see at the moment will be of great import weather-wise. If you are looking end of next week for a move then start getting serious about it 72hr in advance.

Also keep in mind winds can be quite strong out of the north and you can still make progress on a West Country cruise because you can tuck in close for much of the way. As we get deeper into the summer winds from this sector are less likely (May can quite often be a good time to head along the coast westwards, albeit a colder time).

I'm about 5,000 miles away from you right now but if you want to PM me a bit nearer the time am happy to give you my ill-considered view, for what it is worth, if helpful. I will however be in bed if you mail in the mornings /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[amf]

Hi Barry,

I think we were rafted up to you in Guernsey?

Yes, we did get a good soaking, apart from a few things falling off the boat we survived!

Have been studying the Channel Pilot and West Coutry Crusing books, really usefull. Thanks for your tips re Darthaven.

Cheers

Andrew

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[amf]

Thanks TCM, useful stuff.

Been passed D2 a number of times and so far have avoided any collisions - you keep moving around though - last time I saw you, you seemed to be queuing for the boat scrubber

Anyway, if all else fails can we fit Manatee into your tender garage? I'm sure we wouldn't even notice any lumpy bits around Portland Bill, St Albans Head etc??

Cheers

Andrew

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[amf]

Re: Chill pill time

I'll take you up on the offer Kim, thanks - all I need now is Tom to organise the parking in Dartmouth!

So, are you 5000 miles away on a boat??

Cheers

Andrew

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[tcm]

Re: another idea from NRB pontoon

get a look of the synoptic charts for that time. Also windguru.cz and theyr.net wil show forecats a good way off. Yup, they will change BUT if you keep looking as the planned date gets closer, you will know if its is getting a bit rubbisher forecast or less rubbish - the trend. So not unknown for a f'cast 6+ to be delayed and chage to a 2ish, and of course v-versa.

No problem in getting the s23 in the garage, but not in one piece unfortunately.


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[longjohnsilver]

First time I've done this, but have copied a post I made last year about the coast from Weymouth to Salcombe, there's probably much more others can add, just hope it's of some use.

Nick, once you're sure that you've sorted out any engine problems why not just pootle along the coast, having chosen a good weather window. No need to rush, call in at a few other places on the way, you'll be surprised how easy it will seem.

Maybe call in at Weymouth for the cheapest fuel on the south coast, creep around Portland Bill about 50- 100 yards off and then hug the coast around Lyme Bay, maybe stop for lunch in Lyme Regis, use a visitors buoy and dinghy to the Cobb, good food and drink in the Cobb Arms. Then onwards past Beer (you could well find Blue Fisher somewhere between Lyme and Exmouth on one of our favourite dive sites), maybe call into Exmouth for a pint, you can always moor alongside me or use my mooring if I'm not there. From my mooring it's only about 20 yards onto Dawlish Warren which has great sandy beaches, but watch out for the currents. The sand dunes are great, easy to find a secluded bit all to yourself even at the busiest times. Have a good explore, there's ponds, loads of wildlife and even a golf course!

Then on to Teignmouth, only go in around high water, but well worth the effort, pretty, good beaches and some good pubs on the quay. Next on to Babbacombe tucked away in the corner of the bay only a few miles away from Torquay. There's a little pier that you can tie up to at high tide, or else anchor 50 yards or so off at low water, with an excellent pub only 50 yards or so away. And a few hundred yards away is a cliff railway, up to the top for some great views. There are often dolphins around this area, an added bonus.

Then round the corner to Torbay, not my favourite place although Brixham is interesting in places, particularly recommended is Brixham Yacht Club, fantastic views of the bay with good food and a good choice of beers. From there a short hop around to Dartmouth, maybe stopping at Scabbacombe sands for the girls to play (watch out for the nudists!) and then into Dartmouth, loads of places to stop, or for somewhere a bit quieter up to Dittisham or again at high water, all the way to Totnes.

Leaving Dartmouth for Salcombe you have some great beaches in Start Bay, Blackpool Sands being one of the best. Look out for the abandoned houses at Hallsands, lots of history there. Creep around Start Point avoiding the Skerries and Salcombe is just around the corner. Look for the wreckage on Prawle point, an old ship which broke its tow some years ago. Salcombe has some of the best beaches in the country with golden sands and clear water, and always somewhere sheltered to moor or anchor.

There you have it, Lyme Bay and beyond in easy steps, all great fun and not at all difficult in settled weather.

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[[2574]]

Andrew,

Go offshore from Portland bill (4 miles offshore?) and make sure you have wind with tide at the time (or slack tide). The so-called inner passage is just full of stress as far as I'm concerned, there are lobster pots in the narrow channel and if you lose propulsion on the point you are knackered. If it's a South Westerly when you go then punch the channel floodtide, much better than being punched by wind over tide in a small boat. If it's a gentle northerley through easterly then perfect, catch the tidal ebb escalator westward bound. Luvly jubbly.

Have fun.

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[amf]

Must admit, I'm in two minds about inshore/offshore passage.

Having a single engine makes me v. nervous about fouling the prop on the inshore passage. However it does keep me close to the shore (for shelter) and within range of Seastart.

My ideal (I think) is perfect conditions and a direct passge to Dartmouth, although perfect conditions do look unlikely at this point based on what others have said.

Taking a pounding in a small boat however is tiring, as I found out coming back from Guernsey, so may prefer to break the journey up.

Cheers

Andrew

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[amf]

TCM,

You mentioned "making sure wind and tide in same direction".

Whilst I underdstand the principle of wind against tide being a bad thing, my passage planning around the Bill got me to the tip at slack tide just as it was turning to the west (as per suggestions in channel pilot etc). Given that the wind will likely be coming from the west is this a bad idea? (ie. potentially wind against tide across Lyme Bay). The thought being that the westerley going tide would make the trip across the bay quicker.

If I do have a westerley wind should I therefore be at the tip of Portland as the tide turns to the east and bash my way across the bay?

Cheers

Andrew

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[[2574]]

Andrew,

Being close to the shore around the Bill is no comfort at all. You have zero sea room there and if anything does go belly up you only have a very short period of time before you are either in the Race or on the beach. If you are four miles off you've got time on your side should you need it, the tide will carry you away from the race, you've got perfect VHF communications ashore for comfort and you've no blessed lobster pots to worry about. I can understand yachts going inshore because of the time saving due to less distance but that makes an immaterial difference to a fast motor boat. I remember wanting to stay close to the shore when I first started doing longer passages but the truth is that you are better off further out unless you are relying on being close to the land for smoother seas with an offshore breeze.

Before I did my first Lyme bay crossing to the West country I drove to Portland and had a look from the land. As I drove down to the Bill I could see the Race from the car from about two miles away - just a mass of white churning confused water, and I've been offshore ever since!

rob

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[davedpc]

Dont think Weymouth is the cheapest for diesel anymore ???Dave.

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[kimhollamby]

Re: Chill pill time

No, in a hotel room at this point in time although perhaps out on the water (Pacific) in the next couple of days to do some diving.

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[amf]

Workaholic!

Ohhh - sounds nice. So what'cha doing logging in? - put ya laptop away and go diving (or to the bar!)

Cheers

Andrew

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[tcm]

the almanac advice about planning a passage is not for us - it's for crappy little sailing boats doing about five knots and are scratching for every free knot westwards but not caring so much about smooth water cos they are in a crap old boat rocking all over the place anyway - quite different from a planing powerboat.

It will be rougher water if the tidal stream going from east to the west and the wind is from the west to east - opposite directions. You want wind and tide TOGETHER in the same direction for smooth water.

So yes, it is a bad idea, and yr final summary is the right way: fine if slack (zero) tidal stream, but lumpy (white watery) if significant wind is one way (from west) and the tidal ebb downchannel (from east, to west) is against it.

Sounds mad, but if the wind is significant and from the west to east (as it normally is) then you actualy want to hit slack tide as it turns to flood in that same direction - from west to east - when the wind will smooth the flooding tidal water.

Sure, instead of a knot or so of tide going with you, you get a knot of tide against you - but the water is much flatter and hence the blamity 22+ knots and not lumpy nasty 15 or less. It will be less of a bash than it sounds.



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[[2574]]

"Blamity"

Lovely new word that I shall hereafter use to mean "wind over tide". Much easier to say.

Thanks!

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[poter]

Sail anywhere

Bleedin cheek..

Of course TCM is correct saily boats can go anywhere!!!

AMF - next week that is the 11th we will be going west from Exmouth (subject to weather)
Probably overnight Dartmouth Sunday 11th, look us up 'Shady Lady' (Moody 30)
for a beer.

poter.

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