Kilnquay Falmouth - yacht with trashed genoa!

[KevO]

I would much rather someone thought "Oh dear, that looks untidy" rather than "Oh dear, that looks expensive!"

 

[capnsensible]

If a boat is not in regular use, why not lower the sail and stow it? Saves a lot of unnecessary wear and tear and doesn't take long.

 

[jwilson]

I agree; I asked my helper to give me a hand to restow the genoa after our first effort to roll it up when we had bent the sail on failed. He held a little tension on the genoa sheet while I pulled in the reefing line. The result is one very tidily rolled away sail.

I am acutely aware that one cleat separates my genoa from being shredded in the next gale and have some sympathy for those whose sails have been wrecked in Falmouth.

Mine is not on a cleat but a clutch: when leaving the boat I roll an extra turn (sheets round sail) and then tie a stopper knot the pull side of the clutch, as well as having the clutch locked. If your furler line leads to a cleat you can take it to a second cleat, or put a stopper knot inline near one of the lead blocks.

With this the only things that can go wrong are a parted furling line or something breaking between the foil and the drum. Usually though the trashed genoas are because of furling lines not secured.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Mine is not on a cleat but a clutch: when leaving the boat I roll an extra turn (sheets round sail) and then tie a stopper knot the pull side of the clutch, as well as having the clutch locked. If your furler line leads to a cleat you can take it to a second cleat, or put a stopper knot inline near one of the lead blocks.

With this the only things that can go wrong are a parted furling line or something breaking between the foil and the drum. Usually though the trashed genoas are because of furling lines not secured.

I agree - and I was being slightly economical with my description of how our boat is rigged. In practice my furling line goes round its dedicated winch and then onto a cleat. The snatch load of the furling line (if it ever occurs) is taken by the winch and the cleat holds the line secure.

The point I was making was that its seamanlike to ensure that the sail is furled correctly and tightly with an added couple or turns of the sheets round the sail to make sure that the wind can't get under the clew. I have seen sails shredded where the clew was left out a few inches allowing the wind to get under the sail and work things free.

 

[onesea]

But all you've done is describe how a well rolled sail shouldn't break free and flog and destroy itself...

So stow the sail just as you describe. Now explain any disadvantages of putting a few turns of the sheets round the rolled up sail? It's belt and braces; especially as when people are distracted or in a hurry they might not always get the rolls exactly right?

The only thing against putting a few rolls of sheet round the furled sail is that it seems to offend people sensibilities of what looks neat. IMHO it's a sensible and seamanlike thing to do.

If the sail is secured in the middle, as you describe. If the wind does get under the sail it is often in the leach halfway up the foil, above the tack.

If the tack is exposed a bit there is a chance the pull will tighten the stow of the sail... If the ropes are rapped round the sail, they will probably just choke tighter round the sail allowing the leach to rip its self apart...

Each to there own as I said in my last post the whole argument is irrelevant if the sail is stowed and secured correctly, it will not matter sheets round or not.

IMHO A good seaman will not cast his view as the only way to do things. Listen, watch and learn there is often no one right method afloat.

 

[fergie_mac66]

It takes 15 min to take a sail down and pack it in a bag. No uv damage, wind damage or any damage.Easier to take off when leaving boat ! Much more seaman like and save money in the long run

 

[john_morris_uk]

If the sail is secured in the middle, as you describe. If the wind does get under the sail it is often in the leach halfway up the foil, above the tack.

If the tack is exposed a bit there is a chance the pull will tighten the stow of the sail... If the ropes are rapped round the sail, they will probably just choke tighter round the sail allowing the leach to rip its self apart...

Each to there own as I said in my last post the whole argument is irrelevant if the sail is stowed and secured correctly, it will not matter sheets round or not.

IMHO A good seaman will not cast his view as the only way to do things. Listen, watch and learn there is often no one right method afloat.

So you are claiming there is actual merit in leaving the clew exposed? My experience and observation of various genoa's stowed in sich a way is that the exposed clew doesn't ever 'tighten' the sail. The friction of the sail in its rolls is never overcome by the forces on the clew. In fact what happens is that the clew rattles back and forth (no matter how tight the rolls and how tight the sheets) and either flogs itself free or opens a seam up and the sail then self destructs. You have the right to your view but we will have to agree to disagree.

I do agree that one should always be open to new ideas and I hope that I am always open to alternative ways to do things. However leaving the clew of the sail exposed on a roller reefing genoa is an experiment that I won't be joining in with. The only argument for not putting a few rolls of the sheets round the rolled genoa is because it looks neater. In fact there are good arguments that extra rolls are belt and braces.

Of course you should take the sail down if you are leaving it - but if you are only away a few days its a lot of hassle and very few people make the effort...

 

[jwilson]

So you are claiming there is actual merit in leaving the clew exposed? My experience and observation of various genoa's stowed in sich a way is that the exposed clew doesn't ever 'tighten' the sail. The friction of the sail in its rolls is never overcome by the forces on the clew. In fact what happens is that the clew rattles back and forth (no matter how tight the rolls and how tight the sheets) and either flogs itself free or opens a seam up and the sail then self destructs. You have the right to your view but we will have to agree to disagree.

I do agree that one should always be open to new ideas and I hope that I am always open to alternative ways to do things. However leaving the clew of the sail exposed on a roller reefing genoa is an experiment that I won't be joining in with. The only argument for not putting a few rolls of the sheets round the rolled genoa is because it looks neater. In fact there are good arguments that extra rolls are belt and braces.

Of course you should take the sail down if you are leaving it - but if you are only away a few days its a lot of hassle and very few people make the effort...

+1
Long-term a genoa should be down, but I really don't want to fight to flake a large wet sail on deck on a mooring, and then have it festering bagged down below decks. On my own on a breezy day flaking the 150% genoa of a 35 ft boat neatly is near impossible. Roll it tightly, extra turns of sheet, and a furling line secured so it can't let go.

And I too will definitely not be leaving a pretty little triangle of clew flapping.

 

[onesea]

And I too will definitely not be leaving a pretty little triangle of clew flapping.

Who said anything about flapping? It should be secured on the jib sheets and furling line double secured (I have stated all this before) so if the sail moves the weight on the cloth keeps the leech and foot tight. When you start wrapping the rope around the sail you start taking some of the load of the leach and foot, increasing the chance of wind getting under the sail (think about it).

As I said before each to there own, my sails where on in all weathers for 6 years on open mooring without issue (so I cannot be that wrong).

I mentioned earlier with a change of boats I got rid of roller furling, so 20m2 of sail flaked on the fore-deck single handed is now the normal end to the day.

Yes in the days I had roller furling and even now all sails stripped of deck if the boat is not going to be used, for more than a week or 2....

That's just common sense...