Kids on ocean passages - reckless or character building?

Fimacca

Fimacca

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Great that these folk are living the dream, but i am not comfortable at all with exposing such young kids to the dangers of long sea journeys. I do hope they get their mast sorted and continue, but maybe leave kids with grandparents while they do it then hopefully return!!
I make the decision not to take my kids to sea unless weather is spot on and the adult ratio to kid is 1 to 1. Even then it is a jolly jaunt down the coast for 20 miles.

http://anasaziracing.blogspot.co.uk/p/mast-project_2.html

What would we be saying if they lost the kids on knockdown into the sea never to be seen again. Would we be looking at a criminal prosecution in this blame culture world? Would that be right........or wrong ?
 
It is perfectly acceptable to sail around the world, or even just on long coastal overnight passages with kids where just the father and mother are the only adults, or even just one adult, as in an ex work colleague's case.

To be quite frank kids are tough and adaptable, it's adults that develop the weaknesses and fears that they then impose on their kids. If the yacht founders and the kids die, such is life, sad as it is. There are plenty of long distance cruisers with children, lots of blogs, YouTube videos, books with some even being born at sea, there is even a young girl at 13 who has crossed the North Sea single handed.

I understand your discomfort and I have felt the same when exposing my kids to danger (I took mine cross a desert in a 4x4, camping out at night, as well as sailing on various coastal trips overnight where I was the only competent sailor on board). The fear just makes one plan and execute the adventure with due diligence plus find the resolve to push the fear to the back and manage it.
 
:encouragement:It always makes me uneasy to see young kids on long passage making such as circumnavigations.
Their parents had a choice whether to put themselves in potentially harmful situations - the kids
didn't.
Also, having kids is a responsibility - to see them properly educated and socialized with their own
peer groups.
If someone wants to take off around the world then don't have kids - or wait until they are old enough
to make an informed decision on whether to participate or not.
Just my point of view :encouragement:
 
I'm going with character building, but I will declare a bias....

In the 70's my father loaded his five kids aged between ten and four together with our blind mother and the family dog onto an old west country trading ketch and set off to sail around the world. We only got as far as Brazil but I will be forever grateful for the experience and how it impacted on my future life.

If you want to expose your children to real risk just bring them up in a modern urban society.....
 
Thank goodness we all have different points of view and the freedom to make these choices on behalf of kids as responsible parents. I suspect there is trawling going on here.
 
Fluvial66 said:
Also, having kids is a responsibility - to see them properly educated and socialized with their own peer groups.
Click to expand...

Around a third of children emerge from school without useful qualifications. I do know about you, but I don't define my peer group as "people born within a year of me".
 
Thing is, it's an impossible question to answer; some parents could teach toddlers to sail and navigate, some parents shouldn't be let loose in command of a pencil sharpener !

I'm inclined to go with the ' character building '; after all we've got loads of children cluttering up the place, might as well try and make something useful out of some of 'em rather than learning which cider is best on street corners...
 
Fimacca said:
Great that these folk are living the dream, but i am not comfortable at all with exposing such young kids to the dangers of long sea journeys. I do hope they get their mast sorted and continue, but maybe leave kids with grandparents while they do it then hopefully return!!
I make the decision not to take my kids to sea unless weather is spot on and the adult ratio to kid is 1 to 1. Even then it is a jolly jaunt down the coast for 20 miles.
Click to expand...

I just had a quick browse - wow .. that's some undertaking ...

but what about the kids?

Ok - in the last few weeks I've read that a toddler - age 3 died from his injuries after a car rolled into him on their drive. Another one finally had his life support machine turned off having choked on a grape and starved of oxygen for 30 minutes.
Things happen, accidents occur - the parents duty is to avoid these if possible - but it's not always possible - I'm sure whoever was in the car didn't mean to roll it into the boy and the parents of the child who suffocated on the grape didn't intend for that to happen, they were just going about normal life - as we all do - be that on dry land or on water.
I wish we had the balls to do what they're doing ...
 
Fluvial66 said:
:Also, having kids is a responsibility - to see them properly educated and socialized with their own
peer groups.
Click to expand...
Really depends of how you define education and socializing. If you keep strictly to the narrow academic definition then the kids might suffer but I see a parents role as educating the child for life to come. I'm struggling to see how exploring the world, being exposed to and socializing with peoples from all different cultures can be anything but beneficial.
Sure a parent needs to protect their child form danger where possible but not at the expense of the child gaining experience of the world they are living in.
Both my children have had rides in an air ambulance due to accidents in their chosen sports. This could have been avoided by wrapping them in cotton wool but then they wouldn't be the well rounded adventurous young adults they are today. Able to mix with just about any group, willing to try new experiences and capable of weighing up risk and mitigating it without being held back by fear.
Guess I'm in the character building camp.
 
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Horses for courses I suppose. I think common sense should prevail with what you attempt. Huge undertaking with very small kids though on the blog. He did a good job himself of cutting mast free and they did not SOS immediately like most would do. They tried to resolve issues themselves.
What is trawling boots ? I have no connections to these folks in the blog (we would fall out over their kids pretty much immediately!)
 
Fluvial66 said:
Also, having kids is a responsibility - to see them properly educated and socialized with their own
peer groups.
Click to expand...
This is one area where generally speaking long distance sailing is very beneficial. The kids I've met cruising full time are usually much more mature, self reliant, much less excluded from adult company - that line between "grown up" and "kid" doesn't really exist and the kids are very relaxed in either company. They take part in the running of the boat. Generally they seem very well adapted. And anyway, most bots seem to settle down as the kids get to teenage years where their own social scene is much more important.
From meeting plenty along the way I would say growing up on a long distance cruising boat is very healthy indeed, both physically and mentally.
 
Fimacca said:
Great that these folk are living the dream, but i am not comfortable at all with exposing such young kids to the dangers of long sea journeys. I do hope they get their mast sorted and continue, but maybe leave kids with grandparents while they do it then hopefully return!!
I make the decision not to take my kids to sea unless weather is spot on and the adult ratio to kid is 1 to 1. Even then it is a jolly jaunt down the coast for 20 miles.

http://anasaziracing.blogspot.co.uk/p/mast-project_2.html

What would we be saying if they lost the kids on knockdown into the sea never to be seen again. Would we be looking at a criminal prosecution in this blame culture world? Would that be right........or wrong ?
Click to expand...

Wow. I couldn't disagree more!

I've met and got to know quite a few families who do, or previously have, lived aboard and cruised long distance. In each and every case, the children stood out as significantly 'ahead' (on numerous fronts) of similar aged kid back home.

As far the danger is concerned, it's probably significantly more dangerous living in many parts the UK. Despite what the RNLI marketing stats claim, I think I'm correct in saying you're more likely to come a cropper crossing a road or driving to the boat than whilst using it!
 
They arent "living the dream" - they are living someone's selfish obsession.Under financed and under insured as in "We lost our carbon wing mast, composite standing rigging, main sail, two head sails, deck hardware, radar & Sea-Me, and running rigging. We had no insurance nor have the funds (100,000 Euros) to make a complete replacement of our losses."

Or lets put it another way. Instead of being responsible, getting a job and providing properly for the family they go off half cock in an arguably unsuitable boat ( wing mast that far south?). Its self indulgence.
 
birdseye said:
They arent "living the dream" - .
Click to expand...

No, you're right. They're living THEIR dream. They were clearly affluent enough to get the boat in the first place and had the bottle to actually pursue their dream. Perhaps they had to make a choice between buying insurance or buying food and clothing for their kids....? Is it reckless to sail without insurance, I don't think so. Insurance won't protect you from danger, it only replaces material effects and there is some argument that having insurance might even make you more cavalier and take risks you may not otherwise entertain. Good luck to them.
 
I see nothing wrong with taking kids on long trips but not more than a year or so. Children who have grown up with just their parents on cruising boats tend to be very open and generous but also quite naïve. I also think school is most important for children and home school whether on a boat or not is really a suitable alternative since they don't gain the social skills they would from mixing with a large group of people their own age.
 
Read the blog......not so sure in this case !

Yes, I need to adventure more.......but not this far.......

Maybe it is a sun sail week, sailing abroad 'by the yard' for me..........or maybe not........
 
Triassic said:
No, you're right. They're living THEIR dream. They were clearly affluent enough to get the boat in the first place and had the bottle to actually pursue their dream. Perhaps they had to make a choice between buying insurance or buying food and clothing for their kids....? Is it reckless to sail without insurance, I don't think so. Insurance won't protect you from danger, it only replaces material effects and there is some argument that having insurance might even make you more cavalier and take risks you may not otherwise entertain. Good luck to them.
Click to expand...

Yes it is reckless and irresponsible. The father of those kids took on a responsibility when he caused them to appear. They take priority over his interests and its his job to provide properlky for them and not be self indulgent. Instead , rather than work for a living as most responsible people do, he has gone off round the worlkd on an uninsured shoe string.

Sell up and sail away appeals to many people, but most put their responsibilities to their families first and dont go
 
Woodlouse said:
I see nothing wrong with taking kids on long trips but not more than a year or so. Children who have grown up with just their parents on cruising boats tend to be very open and generous but also quite naïve. I also think school is most important for children and home school whether on a boat or not is really a suitable alternative since they don't gain the social skills they would from mixing with a large group of people their own age.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I was out of the school system between the ages of 10 and 16 and I agree that when I came back to the UK to take my O levels (shows how long ago it was) I was certainly very naive around my classmates and as a result was generally the butt of any joke they were playing. Given that I then went on to enjoy a thirty year career which was pretty much sorting out the lack of social skills in others I would have to disagree with your second comment. If anything I found my childhood experiences with numerous other cultures and societies was a distinct advantage in helping to understand the problems I was faced with.
 
birdseye said:
Yes it is reckless and irresponsible. The father of those kids took on a responsibility when he caused them to appear. They take priority over his interests and its his job to provide properlky for them and not be self indulgent. Instead , rather than work for a living as most responsible people do, he has gone off round the worlkd on an uninsured shoe string.
Click to expand...
So it would be ok if he had a regular income and insurance ?

Does it matter that they've lost the mast? Having insurance to cover the cost of replacement wouldn't change where they are right now. What would they have done had they not been able to fund a replacement? Work until they could? Return home - wherever home is ...

The kids are young and are gaining experience and an education that you and I didn't get - is it the best education? That's arguable - but even if they don't carry on sailing when they're older, they're more likely to be adventurous ...
 
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