Ketch wisdom required

[npf1]

Despite being listed on the inventory, I’ve not been able to find or track down the trysail or storm jib. But before I go off and get a new ones made (there is a separate track for a trysail), I was wondering if I actually needed them at all.

The boat is a large heavy displacement long keel ketch with a huge roller furling 140% genoa, boom mounted battened staysail with reefing points, fully battened main with reefing points and a fully battened mizzen with reefing points. Also got a yankee and spinnaker.

If in heavy weather, would dropping the main and reefing the both the mizzen and staysail be comparable to using storm sails? I’ve read several accounts of ketch owners doing this and never needing storm sails, even in big blows.

Anyone have any wisdom to impart on this subject?

And can anyone recommend a good book that discusses sailing a ketch?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Talbot]

With the rig you have already, the need for the storm sails will depend on the weight of canvas used in the sails you plan to use as substitutes (i.e. reefed staysail and mizzen) and your cruising plans.

If you intend coastal trips only and the sails are of sufficient strength to take the occasional very heavy blow, I suspect I would not bother - check with your sailmaker.

If you are planning on long distance cruising (Transat/transpac) then I would be more likely to want to carry special sails for really bad weather - if only to reduce the wear on the normal sails.

 

[npf1]

Thanks. Yes, will be doing a transat in July. The mizzen, main and staysail are all a very heavy Dacron from North Sails. All virtually new.

 

[Mirelle]

Coastal: foresail and mizzen OK. Deepwater: maybe not OK

The theory is that the sail area set should be concentrated inboard as weather worsens. If the remaining sails are set at each end of the boat one sail will fill as the other is blanketted, due to size of waves and pitching, and the boat will get thrown about more.

Besides this, it is much easier to handle sails in the middle of the boat, and the mainmast is better stayed than the mizzen.

In an ordinary coastal blow, like a typical summer gale, this does not matter much. Off soundings, it may matter.

 

[ashanta]

Re: Coastal: foresail and mizzen OK. Deepwater: maybe not OK

Makes sense to me!

 

[Talbot]

sails sound good, but I would still ask North if they were happy about your intended use.

 

[Benbow]

staysail and mizzen is the classic ketch heavy weather rig. Many will go to windward beautifully like this - and in pretty wild conditions. It is a very easily handled rig, and unlike a deep reefed main does not have a full size boom thrashing about in the middle of the boat. Of course diferent boats behave differently and you need to have faith that your mizzen mast won't fall down!

However, I agree that it is not a rig for extreme survival conditions.

 

[clouty]

In a high force 8, Biscay, we went in a very similar boat from staysail alone (this needs to be strong) to bare poles, wheel lashed to weather. In ten hours we had traveled 10 NM down weather, rode comfortably, I even made bread. We had taken the safe route across Biscay, and had about 70 NM of searoom.

We had a storm jib and a trysail. We never used them.

 

[npf1]

Thanks for the tips. Can anyone recommend a suitable book? Anyone know if "Heavy Weather Sailing" (Allard Coles) discusses ketches?

 

[snowleopard]

i suggest you try going to windward in a strong wind with just the staysail set. the chances are it will work very well. the same thing wouldn't work with a roller reefing headsail.

on a previous boat i had a storm jib and trysail made but hadn't sorted out the arrangements for the trysail on my first trip when i got hit by a force 9 southerly in lyme bay. i set the storm jib alone and she went upwind at 6 knots. after that the trysail never came out of its bag.

 

[peterb]

Nothing to do with ketches, but .......

as a matter of interest, what heavy weather sails do you use with an Aero-rig? It normally relies on the main being big enough to control the position of the "boom", so surely using just a foresail would make the rig swing the wrong way with the sail backed?

 

[snowleopard]

Re: Nothing to do with ketches, but .......

it's not an aero-rig! the big difference is that they have a pole mast fixed rigidly to the boom whereas my mast is a rotating wing which has an area of 10 sq m. i can control its angle and set it either to point into the wind to eliminate drive or progressively increase drive by altering the angle of attack. in winds of f8 and up i normally drop all sail and use the mast alone. best speed to date is 9 knots.

 

[Lee_Shaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone recommend a suitable book?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernart Moitessier - A sea Vagabond's World

Covers all manner of seamanship and deals extensively with his ketch Joshua, including choices of sail wardrobe and plan for every condition imaginable.

 

[pugwash]

And when the mainmast falls down you've still got something up standing up there to play with. I have a ketch too and I have often wondered about this question. A ketch is less efficient to windward but gives you more options, not least the fact that you have a lot more to hold on to in the cockpit area and the main is easier to handle because it's not as big (i often sail solo). I'm not an expert in heavy weather sailing but I think I really need a storm jib, not a trisail though.