Keeping engines in good shape

[EugeneR]

There are times when we do not go anywhere with the boat for a couple of weeks (too many other boating activities). I heard that one should run the engines - TAMD63Ps in a Phantom 38 in this case - at load every couple of weeks, to ensure they stay in good shape. I know the previous owner did so, religiously.

Is this a matter of one idle in forward, one in reverse while tied to the pontoon for 15 or so minutes, every 2 weeks or so? Or up to a specific temperature?

On the "what not to do" side, I also read that I should not run them without load, either too short or too long. Any view on what too short or too long is, and the possible consequences?
*
I don't know much about engines so had an engineer for a day to show me how to service and resolve any common issues, but forgot to ask about this. Any comments / guidance appreciated as I am keen on maintaining them in long term good condition.

 

[rosssavage]

You're going to get a lot of opinions on this....

For me, use the boat.

Big diesels should be used under load, and allowed to warm up to their correct operating temp. Tied to a pontoon is no good, unless warming up for oil changes. Running in neutral is pointless, the engines won't get hot, and you run the risk of condensation developing if they don't get to true operating temperature. You also run the risk of bore glazing.

Running at low power in gear is ok, as the engines are at least loaded, BUT, diesels really like to work, and they're best operated at high power. Received wisdom suggests best at max power -200 rpm is a good figure for prolonged operation.

My TAMD61A engines (predecessor to the 63P) have been run for 10 years or more on the upper Thames, barely off idle. You won't believe the smoke when I first open the throttles, but it soon clears up. We go coastal every year too, and a good prolonged blast really does them good.

Don't be tempted to tie up and run in gear for 15 mins, you're likely to do more harm than good. If you really want to run at the dock, you need to be in gear for at least an hour to get the engine really warm.

Personally, I wouldn't bother - just use the boat!

 

[jfm]

The engines are perfectly fine if you don't start them for a few months. You can start them if you want, and theoretically that adds wear and bore glazing, but both those two items require way way more number of starts and hours at idle than you're ever going to give them so really it just makes no difference

Running them at idle in gear tied to the dock makes no difference as regards the engine compared with running them in neutral. It does nicely move the shafts which is good for the shaft seals or gland packings and that IS something worth doing every couple of months. 5 seconds in gear is enough though

 

[dragoon]

I run ours up every month or so when the boat's not use. Stick em in gear for a few seconds to let the shafts spin and wipe any young barnacles out of the shaft bearings.

It's better to get some oil circulating and prevent seizure IMO, rather than worrying about condensation in the oil.....change your oil every 12 months and they'll be fine.

I see you state you generally use the boat every couple of weeks. That's very frequent usage by most people's standards!

Cheers Paul

 

[SP2]

We used to berth next to someone who always ran his engines in gear whilst tied to the finger berth we shared. Used to go on for an hour or so and most often this was when the weather was fine so no chance for us to relax in the sun. However the greatest impact was that by doing this he created a tidal flow effect which we and and others on that main pontoon had to negotiate when leaving and mooring up - no concessions were made - and some on our pontoon were not the hottest boat handlers at the best of times.

Mind you I like a challenge...

As JFM says, worth getting the shafts turning every now and then so I would run the engines in gear during the winter if we had not been out for a few weeks. Always made sure it was when any neighbours were not about (usually on an evening) and boats were not moving in the basin.

 

[jfm]

This idea of running in gear depends on the size of the boat and I'd guess about 40 foot is the limit with a planning boat. At 80 feet, with a pair of 4 foot (dia and pitch) props spinning at 300rpm the loads on the lines feels like it will rip cleats out. I spin the props for literally one or two revolutions or so, and one at a time, which is all that is needed

 

[[2068]]

With a sterndrive boat you can run one engine in reverse, the other forwards, and by adjusting the relative revs and the steering position, it's possible to run at moderate speed in-gear without being able to play Middle "C" on the mooring lines.

I have no idea where the upper limit is, as I am quite fond of the way the cleats refrain from removing sections of boat as they detach and fly past, but 1200rpm on an KAD32 powered S28 is enough to warm the oil up for a change in a few minutes.

 

[CX54WEK]

Unless we are going to go out on the boat we dont bother running the engine.

That said the most ours has sat unused was about six weeks when we were iced in.

 

[omega2]

buy a caravan!!

 

[CX54WEK]

buy a caravan!!

But they dont float!!

 

[scottie]

Keeping the engine and engine room clean is maybe more a more efective way

From years of experience going on to boats professionally especially commercial ones the tidy ones did not suffer the annoying problems that clatty ones seemed to attract
A good reason for white painted engines that show up leaks and spills so much quicker.
Letting the engine cool down before shutting off especially ones with turboes is one of the best maintance routines along with warming up before powering up .

 

[Rocksteadee]

Caravans do float.



For a while

 

[Latestarter1]

Keeping the engine and engine room clean is maybe more a more efective way

From years of experience going on to boats professionally especially commercial ones the tidy ones did not suffer the annoying problems that clatty ones seemed to attract
A good reason for white painted engines that show up leaks and spills so much quicker.
Letting the engine cool down before shutting off especially ones with turboes is one of the best maintance routines along with warming up before powering up .

Never understood the warm up cool down folklore.. I really struggle to envisage a marine duty cycle where in practice it is possible to start a stone cold engine and give it tight wire before thermostat has opened. Motors fired up, visual check for exhaust water flow and lube oil pressure on gauges, lines singled up, by the time you cast off thermostats will be opening. Likewise motors have been given serious pain for an hour or two, in the process of mooring up, motors are idling nicely whilst lines secured.
None of this assumes passage at no wake speeds before mooring.

Owners generally yachties running their motors in gear in a crowded marina are a pest!

 

[sailorman]

Never understood the warm up cool down folklore.. I really struggle to envisage a marine duty cycle where in practice it is possible to start a stone cold engine and give it tight wire before thermostat has opened. Motors fired up, visual check for exhaust water flow and lube oil pressure on gauges, lines singled up, by the time you cast off thermostats will be opening. Likewise motors have been given serious pain for an hour or two, in the process of mooring up, motors are idling nicely whilst lines secured.
None of this assumes passage at no wake speeds before mooring.

Owners generally yachties running their motors in gear in a crowded marina are a pest!

I single up start & go.
when i re engined in November 10 yrs ago i also went out on days purely to bed in the engine at various revs, not just out of the berth sail engine off as most yachties do with a new boat

 

[Rocksteadee]

From my understanding warm up
1 to get engine at a uniform temperature to prevent thermal stress due to different rates of expansion.
2 a high temp and load on cold bore causes glazing (similar to heat treating or work hardening)

Cool down
1 to prevent hot spots (see 1 above)
2 to allow turbo to run and cool down and the oil to drain back to prevent it burning on

 

[Latestarter1]

From my understanding warm up
1 to get engine at a uniform temperature to prevent thermal stress due to different rates of expansion.
2 a high temp and load on cold bore causes glazing (similar to heat treating or work hardening)

Cool down
1 to prevent hot spots (see 1 above)
2 to allow turbo to run and cool down and the oil to drain back to prevent it burning on

Warm up, as soon as thermostat is starting to modulate engine is ready to rock and roll.

Cooling down, if engine has been running at maximum output temperatures quickly fall in linear manner once it is pulled back to idle. Turbocharged engines require no special treatment in a marine application, lube oil should never be flooding bearing housing unless there is installation issue resulting in high oil carryover. Take a look at relative sizes of lube oil connections to any turbocharger, drain diameter is four times cross section of flow. Early life turbo-machinery failures are 100% the result of poor engine installation practice, nothing to do with duty cycle.

Diesel engines are designed for a rough and tumble life and do not require the kid glove treatment that exist boaters folklore, marine duty cycles are incredibly kind in leisure applications. Overloading due to incorrect propping and failure to maintain charge air coolers represent major percentage of engine failures.

 

[gordmac]

Why would anyone run their engines in gear tied to a pontoon for any length of time rather than just take the boat for a run?

 

[CX54WEK]

Why would anyone run their engines in gear tied to a pontoon for any length of time rather than just take the boat for a run?

I dont know have never understood this.

There is a chap a few boats up from us with a lovely S28. In the four years we have known him he has never taken it out, never cruised it. Yet he religiously comes once a week to start up the engines (twin KAD32's) and run them, in neutral, from idle speed to pretty much full revs. Never have understood why and have never had the heart to tell him he is doing more harm than good.

Each to their own. I would rather be out and about than sat on the pontoon with a pair of diesels rattling away.

 

[CX54WEK]

From my understanding warm up
1 to get engine at a uniform temperature to prevent thermal stress due to different rates of expansion.
2 a high temp and load on cold bore causes glazing (similar to heat treating or work hardening)

Cool down
1 to prevent hot spots (see 1 above)
2 to allow turbo to run and cool down and the oil to drain back to prevent it burning on

But surely by the time you have fired the engine up, unplugged from shore power, untied ropes and chugged out of the marina the engine will be warm?

Same for cooling down but in reverse.

I have never fully understood those who spend ages "warming up" or "cooling down" their engines

 

[jfm]

Never understood the warm up cool down folklore.. I really struggle to envisage a marine duty cycle where in practice it is possible to start a stone cold engine and give it tight wire before thermostat has opened. Motors fired up, visual check for exhaust water flow and lube oil pressure on gauges, lines singled up, by the time you cast off thermostats will be opening. Likewise motors have been given serious pain for an hour or two, in the process of mooring up, motors are idling nicely whilst lines secured.
None of this assumes passage at no wake speeds before mooring.

Owners generally yachties running their motors in gear in a crowded marina are a pest!

All sounds sensible. I have never found that you get the chance to run the engines hard before say 20mins of slow running while exiting the marina, nor shut them down without the same 20mins of slow running.

As regards warming them up there is a classic dilemma. Warming up at idle pushes some (not all) rubbing metal surfaces together only lightly, but takes ages because the fuel quantity burnt is tiny. Warming up at high load is much faster but pushes some (not all) surfaces together somewhat harder. So do you want to rub (some) surfaces together (a) lightly for a long time, or (b) somewhat harder for a short time. Most manufacturers and proper engineers prefer (b) afaik

BTW, I have 230v jacket heaters, 2 elements in each engine. So I can warm them up before I start them