Kathleen and May "seized" by local authority

Cornishman

Cornishman

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 Jul 2002
Messages
6,402
Location
Cornwall
Visit site
Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

The three masted schooner Kathleen and May has been locked away by the local authority in Bideford for non payment of berthing fees.The owners are worried that they no longer have access to carry on essential maintenance work
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

I think the Council can chain the boat to the quay to stop it sailing off, but not to prevent access for maintenance. I think they'd need a court order for that. Also, preventing the crew access for maintenance could render the council liable for the safety of the vessel if there was an "incident".
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

I hope you are right, but the fact remains that access to the berth where she is has been chained and padlocked.
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Bideford are priveleged to have her tied up there and should not be charging her in the first place,what a bunch of strokers. In my opinon,Jerry.
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

As a North Devon resident I am constantly astonished by the attitude of the council towards the Kathleen and May. Not only the last surviving West Country coasting schooner, but also a tribute to the efforts and tenacity of a determined group who pulled her back from the very brink of destruction. For many years she was a very sorry-looking vessel sitting on the mud in the Torridge. She is now a beautiful sight moored at East-the-Water and the council should feel privileged to have such an asset.
Nicki
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Without a court order the council has no legal right to deny access to any property - for whatever reason. A council has the right to demand (fees etc) but only the courts have the right to enforce.

Serve written notice (hand delivered and receipted) on the Clerk to the Council that its officers are acting beyond their powers, that the owners reserve the right to remove unwarranted restraints on entry within 24 hours, and go down there with croppers and a representative of the press and make entry by removing the chains. The police will not intervene unless a breach of the peace is threatened (which it is not, is it?)

The owners would also be wise to acknowledge whatever debts they have towards the Council, so they can show, in the event of a court case, that they have acted reasonably in trying to come to a settlement, whereas the Council has acted beyond its powers.

On a general note, there is a malaise in this country - we elect local councillors and, by and large they are totally ineffective, because the officials rule the roost. There are few councillors that I have encountered who are prepared to face down officials who, without the need to win elections, are all too prone to hide behind legal threats. This could well be one case where local councillors could be advised their seats are at risk unless they rein in their officials.

Can you imagine such a nonsense as this in Holland, Belgium, France, Germany....?

PWG
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

I have at last found the story here
There was a short piece on local TV last night which sparked my original post. There is a link for your comments to the local paper if you wish. See Have Your Say at the bottom of the item.
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Thanks for that Cornish.

So it seems they've been offered a deal and have refused. So if Dublin and France are keen to have them - go! What is the problem?

It's possible the The Trust are well-meaning but amateurish. We had a not-so-famous as Kathleen & May boat here. It attracted large amounts of donations for a huge refit but went bust for two reasons: 1. the business plan was flawed. 2. they started sawing through and removing structural parts of the vessel to create more room - rendering it unseaworthy.

I think the Council are right to be cautious.

How many Scuttlebutters would throw their £s at the Trust without a great deal more info?
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

A council has the right to demand (fees etc) but only the courts have the right to enforce.

..............................................................................

You are wrong - A registered County Court Bailiff can seize for non payment of rent. I often use the Bailiff when people do not pay rent to me
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

[ QUOTE ]
the council should feel privileged to have such an asset.


[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely agree,they should be helping to fund her if anything.At the very least offer their facilities FOC.

How long before she ends up deteriorating up a muddy creek and another piece of our Maritime heritage dissapears .
Kathleen20and20May.jpg
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Yeah, let them them commit local taxpayers money into a possible wreck.

Do you have knowledge of the last survey? Do the Trust have any real chance of making her seaworthy?

Come on, get real!
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

OK fill her with old tires and torch her .Solve everyones problems /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The council could at the very least waive the mooring fees which they wont get anyway if the trust goes belly up.

In an area heavilly reliant on tourism the sight of a sailing trader anchored in the bay could be something of an assett?
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Bearing in mind she was re-built 10 years ago, she should be OK. Now before I get shot down for thinking 10 years in the context of an old wooden boat is a short time, she was re-framed in oak, re-planked ( I had some of the old planking for my wood burner), and, if memory serves, re-decked, so there is a chance she is fine. She should, at least, have the mooring fees waived until she has had a survey. This boat is significant; she is the last of a vast nationwide industry, not to mention being Luke Powell's (www.workingsail.co.uk) favourite boat. There are still people here whose families worked and lived with such vessels and others, such as myself, who would be quite happy to see some money spent, or, at least, mooring fees waived. Let's face it, wisdom is not present in every penny spent by the council of any area, so why not spend a bit on posterity?

Quite simply, she is unique and the development into luxury apartments of yet another historic wharf is anything but.
Nice picture Graham, Thanks.
Nicki
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

I took you up on your suggestion. Whether the rag prints it or not this is what I sent them::

All across Europe local councils work with preservation groups to ensure the maritime heritage is retained, even encouraged - it's good for business, as well as being culturally sound practice.

Why does this council take a contrary view and insist on banging up a fine piece of marine history at a peak time for its income from visitors? What a total lack of imagination - or is this a case of council officials nagging weak councillors into taking action they know is not supported by the general public? There has to be a better way. There is.

Peter Gibbs, conservationist and sailor.


PWG
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

Teredo - nothing to do with the Kathleen and May ------ !/\ but there was some talk of 'short length' planks being used and haunching after renovation in some boats like that hmm - big burden for Council Tax payers where that occurs as you say




Separately the K&M is up for sale for $3.5 M in America too I was told- Apparently very popular in S Ireland


If somebody owes you money - you can seize their goods.

Inform the police you have done it and don't let them go until they have paid you.

By telling the police and the owner, you have shown there is no criminal intent "to permanently deprive someone of their property.'

Thus there is no offence and it is a civil matter so the police will leave.

Simple instance is a garage not letting you have your car back until you've paid

or as was once done someone's trailer was taken after he went in the water on his RIB. police informed

After a lot of booing and bahhing from the big gorilla but he eventually made his way to the bank and back to the premises of the person owed the money - to pay - only a couple of hundred

Big poody of course! Feet stamping, which he slowly ceased as things took longer than expected due to keys being with someone who was at a meeting elsewhere. He had to come back the following day. Then pay overnight mooring charge - happy days!
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

quote:

If somebody owes you money - you can seize their goods.

____________________________________________

And if you do seize their goods you can expect resistance, and if you use force or trespass or cause damage in the pusuit of goods seizure you place yourself on the wrong side of the law.

I have to tell you you are wong to encourage anyone to use this tactic.

The car/garage situation is quite different - it is almost always a condition of placing your car with a garage for work to be undertaken , that the charges arising are settled before the car is removed. IE you undertake to pay before removing the "collateral" !

PWG
 
Re: Kathleen and May \"seized\" by local authority

You are absolutely right - no force or damage

Trespass is a civil matter - v v difficult to do anything about

It does work though! And looks like the Council are employing the same tactics.

Chap who owns her is apparently a councillor too and has spent £2M restoring her -

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&amp...yUK%7CcountryGB

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top