Andrew_Fanner
Well-Known Member
Always get bemused by this. Car has done >140k and afail the injectors have never been touched. No smoke. Boat had them done about 150 hours ago and smokes like a trooper (no real change post service)
KAMD300 - injectors to be changed - Am I being taken for a ride???
- Thread starter scubaman
- Start date
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
How many hours had the injectors done before you had them reconned/replaced?
ajay
Well-Known Member
why should you see a considerable decrease in performance? the injectors becoming knackered is a different thing, you would feel this because one cylinder wouldnt fire properly, just pass the fuel out the exhaust.
the spray pattern is very accurately defined cone, after billions of explosions and carbon deposits the spray pattern will just be 'different' (not failed) and slightly off ideal so the fuel will still burn well but just not as speced. There may well be a decrease in power but you would have developed it over years of use so would never be able to notice it.
All I know is I had mine done at the rec 500hours and it made a measurable effect on performance. I can understand why people wouldnt want to spend money on it because nothing has actually failed. Mine felt more responsive, less vibration and quieter. When they tested mine, pre-recon all were firing, but all at different levels of pressure and with different spray patterns. Just imagine one injector has an off optimal pattern and another fires at slightly lower pressure etc, you mix up all these possibilities on the different cylinders and you will have slightly early fuel spray or poor direction etc which must have effect on smooth running (even with the fly wheel trying to smooth out the differences)
smoke really wasnt a problem on mine but it did also reduce smoke on startup.
the spray pattern is very accurately defined cone, after billions of explosions and carbon deposits the spray pattern will just be 'different' (not failed) and slightly off ideal so the fuel will still burn well but just not as speced. There may well be a decrease in power but you would have developed it over years of use so would never be able to notice it.
All I know is I had mine done at the rec 500hours and it made a measurable effect on performance. I can understand why people wouldnt want to spend money on it because nothing has actually failed. Mine felt more responsive, less vibration and quieter. When they tested mine, pre-recon all were firing, but all at different levels of pressure and with different spray patterns. Just imagine one injector has an off optimal pattern and another fires at slightly lower pressure etc, you mix up all these possibilities on the different cylinders and you will have slightly early fuel spray or poor direction etc which must have effect on smooth running (even with the fly wheel trying to smooth out the differences)
smoke really wasnt a problem on mine but it did also reduce smoke on startup.
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
Cost isnt really the problem, but "fixing" something that aint broke seems a little counterproductive. Needless to say until ours show some signs of wear they wont be getting reconned.
At 500 hours we would be reconning ours every 18 months which just seems well over the top.
She still runs sweet as a nut, reachs top speed without any fuss and has no vibration, smoke or noise. Other than a small amount of smoke at fire up we rarely see any other smoke from her.
At 500 hours we would be reconning ours every 18 months which just seems well over the top.
She still runs sweet as a nut, reachs top speed without any fuss and has no vibration, smoke or noise. Other than a small amount of smoke at fire up we rarely see any other smoke from her.
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ajay
Well-Known Member
no problem, (you really do >300hrs per year, my hats off to you!!)
but the fixing something that aint broke also applies to servicing and all other maintenance,
Im buying another boat and to me I look out amongst other things to check the engines have had their injectors done at recommended hours (most ive seen have), just my 2c and we're taking this off topic
but the fixing something that aint broke also applies to servicing and all other maintenance,
Im buying another boat and to me I look out amongst other things to check the engines have had their injectors done at recommended hours (most ive seen have), just my 2c and we're taking this off topic
poltergeist
Well-Known Member
Who makes the injectors for the D Series of engines - I know it has been said that Volvo offer an exchange service, but Volvo aren't historically the kindest people on the wallet, so just wondered if they were say Bosch, would a Bosch service agent be able to do something with them?
CX54WEK
Well-Known Member
no problem, (you really do >300hrs per year, my hats off to you!!)
but the fixing something that aint broke also applies to servicing and all other maintenance,
Im buying another boat and to me I look out amongst other things to check the engines have had their injectors done at recommended hours (most ive seen have), just my 2c and we're taking this off topic
336 hours last year, hoping to do more this year (if the weather is going to be kind)
Servicing is part of the maintenance schedule and cant be avoided (oil changes every 100 hours is a pain), nowhere in the many manuals i have does it recommend reconning injectors every 500 hours. Maybe you could shed some light on this further though and point me to it. Volvo seem to have been very good at pointing out the recommended service/maintenance intervals for everything else.
msimms
Well-Known Member
The workshop manual seems to argue against touching the injectors unless a specific problem exists. An extract below:
Recommendations when adjusting opening pressure, set pressure and replacing injectors.
Injection takes place under extremely high pressure so that atomization and combustion is as effective as possible. With time opening pressure drops under that indicated for new injectors. This drop in pressure is normal and does not affect injector function or engine performance significantly. Adjusting the injector can shorten the injector nozzle service life.
To avoid replacing and adjusting injectors unnecessarily follow the instructions for inspection below.
Do not inspect an injector unless there is a definite indication that it is not functioning normally (excessive exhaust emissions for example).
When testing an injector the most important things to look at are opening pressure, set pressure and seal.
NOTE! On a 2-spring injector only the opening pressure for the first stage is possible to test.
Spray pattern and creak are harder to judge and do not provide a clear indication of the condition of the injector. In the service literature we indicate set pressure in addition to opening pressure. These values apply to new indicators with new thrust springs.
Because the set pressure of a new spring is somewhat higher than the opening pressure there is some margin for the spring to settle.
When a new spring has settled, opening pressure drops by approximately 8–10 bar. Opening pressure will drop more over time, but the injector will still function normally. Research has shown that the pressure drop evens out
at approximately 15% under opening pressure for a used spring. This drop in pressure is within the specified operating range.
Seal test
A seal test checks for leakage from the injector nozzle. If there is a leak it is between the point of the nozzle needle and the conical seal surface of the
nozzle sleeve. Wipe the point of the nozzle dry. Pump up a pressure
of 2 Mpa under injector opening pressure (first stage on a 2-spring injector) with a manometer connected. Keep pressure steady for 10 seconds. No fuel should drop off the point of the nozzle but it can be damp.
Spray pattern and creak
The condition of the injector nozzle is hard to determine based on spray pattern and creak. Injector nozzle creak can only be judged on new
injectors. The injector nozzle may often operate well even though the spray pattern is imprecise. No judgement can be made of the spray pattern of a 2-spring injector as this is related to the test equipment used. The spray pattern can be very different to that of a 1-spring injector.
Latestarter1
Well-Known Member
Injectors
If you are referring to the Volvo D4/D6 common rail engines with the Bosch CP3 pump, yes injectors are Bosch, they are fix as fail, have no hours to service. Now the big however, unless you have fuel fileration up to proper common rail standards you will end up changing them.
Bosch service dealers set up for common rail (most are these days) can overhaul injectors on 24 hr turnaround.
I have seen zero injector problems on engines using Bosch CP3 with PROPER filteration, oldest now just over 10,000 hrs
If you are referring to the Volvo D4/D6 common rail engines with the Bosch CP3 pump, yes injectors are Bosch, they are fix as fail, have no hours to service. Now the big however, unless you have fuel fileration up to proper common rail standards you will end up changing them.
Bosch service dealers set up for common rail (most are these days) can overhaul injectors on 24 hr turnaround.
I have seen zero injector problems on engines using Bosch CP3 with PROPER filteration, oldest now just over 10,000 hrs
ulyden
Well-Known Member
I know that on the MTU 4000 series the lifetime of the nozzles was increased from 1500 to about 5000 hours by the shift from 7micron to 2 micron fuel filters! This was on the west coast of Norway. MTU are not using Bosch system on 4000 series. (One of the first Common rail small ship engines)
Cummins are claiming close to 20 000h on their new truck engines!
(1 000 000miles or 1.6million km.)
I asked a owner of trucks that was running 300 000km a pr year and he said
he never changed injectors on his trucks! (Unit injector).
So 500h is a very short time for nozzles! But water and dirt can destroy them. But then you don’t overhaul/change the nozzles without removing the reason for the trouble!
But I to often read about people changing the nozzles without checking the timing or even easier checking the system fore air leaks into the fuel system!
Just read about a guy having trouble with white smoke from his yanmar here.
He changed his nozzles but the smoke was the same! It was a air leakage causing it! The engine was 24years old!
If google can translate! http://sagaforumet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1205
PS (Picture shown above are not nozzles for a Kad engine! These are nozzles for something else! Petrol car?)
Cummins are claiming close to 20 000h on their new truck engines!
(1 000 000miles or 1.6million km.)
I asked a owner of trucks that was running 300 000km a pr year and he said
he never changed injectors on his trucks! (Unit injector).
So 500h is a very short time for nozzles! But water and dirt can destroy them. But then you don’t overhaul/change the nozzles without removing the reason for the trouble!
But I to often read about people changing the nozzles without checking the timing or even easier checking the system fore air leaks into the fuel system!
Just read about a guy having trouble with white smoke from his yanmar here.
He changed his nozzles but the smoke was the same! It was a air leakage causing it! The engine was 24years old!
If google can translate! http://sagaforumet.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1205
PS (Picture shown above are not nozzles for a Kad engine! These are nozzles for something else! Petrol car?)
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