Just curious

Leighb

Leighb

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As a first time visitor I am curious to know whether the 5 mph speed limit applies to commercial craft?
Some of the tripper boats appear to be going faster and looking on my AIS display I have found speeds of 6.5 to 7.5 knots. One or two certainly produced significant wash.
 
The upper Tidal Thames at HW is worse than the North Sea in a strong wind. The refraction off the sea walls due to heavy tugs towing at speed, dumb barges, full of waste down river has to be seen to be believed, it was dangerous to attempt to rig fenders when dropping down from Tr Bridge to Limehouse
 
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Leighb said:
As a first time visitor I am curious to know whether the 5 mph speed limit applies to commercial craft?
Some of the tripper boats appear to be going faster and looking on my AIS display I have found speeds of 6.5 to 7.5 knots. One or two certainly produced significant wash.
Click to expand...

The speed limit applies to all craft except coach boats when training rowers and emergency services if life is at risk. That said, it's the wash that causes complaint and IMHO is more the issue.
 
The speed limit applies to all commercial craft operating between Richmond and Hampton Court, apart from any vessel owned by Colliers. And Coach boats, also when there are no rowing boats around and they feel like it. Bald men, naked from the waist up, covered in tattoos and drinking lager also appear to be exempt.
 
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Actionmat said:
The speed limit applies to all commercial craft operating between Richmond and Hampton Court, apart from any vessel owned by Colliers. And Coach boats, also when there are no rowing boats around and they feel like it. Bald men, naked from the waist up, covered in tattoos and drinking lager also appear to be exempt.
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.....half the forum can you be more specific :)
 
Leighb said:
As a first time visitor I am curious to know whether the 5 mph speed limit applies to commercial craft?
Some of the tripper boats appear to be going faster and looking on my AIS display I have found speeds of 6.5 to 7.5 knots. One or two certainly produced significant wash.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the tidal Thames through London, or the non-tidal above Teddington Lock? From Teddington down to (I think) the Albert Bridge the limit is 8kts, and below that through central London it's 12kts all the way to Margretness. Thames Clippers and the fast RIBs have an exception to this from Tower Bridge down (again, I think it's from Tower).

So if you're referring to the any of the tidal section, they were fine. If non-tidal, then they were speeding, but it wouldn't be the first time!
 
Sorry, I realise I didn’t make it clear. It is the non tidal section that I meant. Thanks for comments.
 
jct1981 said:
Are you referring to the tidal Thames through London, or the non-tidal above Teddington Lock? From Teddington down to (I think) the Albert Bridge the limit is 8kts, and below that through central London it's 12kts all the way to Margretness. Thames Clippers and the fast RIBs have an exception to this from Tower Bridge down (again, I think it's from Tower).

So if you're referring to the any of the tidal section, they were fine. If non-tidal, then they were speeding, but it wouldn't be the first time!
Click to expand...

AIS is showing speed OTG. On the tidal the speed limit is set as OTG on the non tidal it is set as TTW. The problem with 7.5 knots OTG on the tidal is that they can be doing 10-11 knots TTW when showing 7.5 knots OTG as they punch their way against an ebb tide. Doing this kind of speed TTW - often on the narrowest stretch of the tidal Thames above Swan Island as they race to get to Teddington Lock to keep on schedule is that they are travelling within a few feet of a large number of moored boats on pontoons causing damage and risk of injury as they pass, they don't slow down even for kids in kayaks, groups of young ducklings, rowers etc. when the conditions clearly call for it. The 8 knot limit is only a maximum. Not an acceptable speed to travel at OTG on all reaches of the river in all conditions which is what the unrealistic schedules of certain* boats requires them to do.

When I say they* I really mean the Cockney Sparrow and the Connaught. The majority of the time the majority of other commercial vessels seem to adapt to the conditions and local situation and respect the environment that they operate in and other river users.

OTG - Over The Ground
TTW - Through The Water
 
Lower Limit 1909 said:
AIS is showing speed OTG. On the tidal the speed limit is set as OTG on the non tidal it is set as TTW. The problem with 7.5 knots OTG on the tidal is that they can be doing 10-11 knots TTW when showing 7.5 knots OTG as they punch their way against an ebb tide. Doing this kind of speed TTW - often on the narrowest stretch of the tidal Thames above Swan Island as they race to get to Teddington Lock to keep on schedule is that they are travelling within a few feet of a large number of moored boats on pontoons causing damage and risk of injury as they pass, they don't slow down even for kids in kayaks, groups of young ducklings, rowers etc. when the conditions clearly call for it. The 8 knot limit is only a maximum. Not an acceptable speed to travel at OTG on all reaches of the river in all conditions which is what the unrealistic schedules of certain* boats requires them to do.

When I say they* I really mean the Cockney Sparrow and the Connaught. The majority of the time the majority of other commercial vessels seem to adapt to the conditions and local situation and respect the environment that they operate in and other river users.

OTG - Over The Ground
TTW - Through The Water
Click to expand...

Good points on OTG/TTW - I couldn't remember offhand which way around it was either side of Teddington.

Also, the 8 knot limit ends at Wandsworth bridge, not Albert bridge as I suggested above
 
I am further confused. In the River Thames Book it states quite clearly that the 8 kph (4.97 mph) limit on the non tidal river is OTG and the 8 or 12 knot limits on the tidal river are “through, on or over the water”.
So which way round is correct?
With only a GPS to measure speed through the water is tricky to judge. Also how can an outside agency measure anything other than SOG?
 
You're right - it's OTG. Just checked the by-laws. Must be through the water on the tidal.

Maximum Speed
27) The master shall not navigate a power-driven vessel at a speed over the bed of
the river greater than 8 kilometres per hour
 
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