jaguar 27 -petrol or diesel?

[galsale76]

I am considering buying a jaguar 27. I notice that the earlier examples tend to have inboard PETROL engines whilst the later (and more expensive !) have inboard diesels. Does anybody have any experiences or advise about the differences between petrol and diesel engines on cruising boats ? Is there a significant increases risk of fire/ explosion. Does the performance change a great deal? and is it dramaticaly more expensive to run a petrol egine?

Very much appreciate any comments or advice anyone might be able to give.

Many thanks.



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[Evadne]

I expect you'll find a few strong opinions on this one!

There is a significant incease in the risk of fire/explosion: diesel fumes are obnoxious but a small spill into the bilges is not dangerous. Petrol has a much lower vapour point so the liquid will evaporate and mix with the air in the cabin turning it into a bomb. Explosions are not common, but you only need it to happen once to spoil your day. Then there's the well known effect of sea air on boat electrics, and the reliance of the petrol engine on the HT circuit. On a big MoBo, with dry bilges and blowers, petrol is probably not a bad choice. On a small sailing cruiser with the proximity of the engine to the sea and inherent dampness I'd always choose diesel. This isn't to say a petrol inboard engine is a complete non-starter (no pun intended), just that I think a small diesel is better for the job.

Petrol engines were fitted to older boats (like mine, originally,) because they were the only engine light enough not to incur an unreasonable weight penalty. They have a much better power:weight ratio than any diesel. Modern diesels have changed this balance a bit, and their superiority is reflected in the price difference between two similar boats with a petrol and diesel engine.



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[galsale76]

thanks very much for advice and comments. Certainly seems to make sense. As you say explosions may not be very common but for the unfortunate recipient, the rarity of the event will be of little interest !

I think may have to review the budget. Thanks once again

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[charles_reed]

No contest

Diesel far more economical, safer and more reliable.

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[aluijten]

It depends all on money (now that is something new!). On itself Diesel has a lot of advantages. The're all mentioned before. In small boats the economy of fuel consumption is of little or no interest. I have a petrol engine, and spend in a year the same amount on petrol in my boat as with one fill-up of my car (Yep, it's a big car). Petrol engines run smoother then diesel (less vibration). Nice if you have to motor back to the habour because the wind is gone. With diesel you have the problem of water in the diesel-tank, bacteria growth, etc. None of that with petrol. It's not all heaven with Diesel.

The risk for explosion is there, but the same applies to all the outboard engines and engine-in-the-bun situations. You need two things to be safe:
- A spark free ventilator with a gas detector in the engine-room/bilge to suck away fumes if present.
- Common sense. Think before acting. So if the ventilator keeps running, do not start the engine.

If you had to choose between a well manitained boat with petrol or a neglected one with diesel at comparable prices, I would go for the petrol.

As been said before it all bears down to maintenance. Keeping the bilge dry is allways a good thing. My engine is a very old Albin 2 cylinder petrol engine, and to my opinion much more reliable then a 10 year old Volvo Penta diesel with worn out bearings or a corroded cooling system.

Finally, for a new boat, no question, I would have a diesel installed, even if I had a choice. But in second hand stuff, look at the big picture, the engine is part of the picture.

Happy hunting,

Arno

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[galsale76]

Arno,

Thanks very much for your advice. I am going to look at examples of both within the next 2 weeks or so. Your comment on the economy of petrol/ diesel very interesting. Thanks again very helpful.

simon

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[richardabeattie]

Count the number of new sailing cruisers equipped from new with petrol engines! Then count the number of Marinas with petrol pumps. Go for Diesel every time.

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[QuietFlight]

As a Jaguar 27 owner and up to speed on whats on the market, I would be surprised to find any 27 with anything other than an inboard diesel? My boat has a Yanmar GM10, which I can not fault, super reliable, seems to run on very little fuel and is now over 12 years old. It has no problem pushing things along at a comfortable 5knts, and for a short period 6 knts.

By the way a great boat, I am sure you will enjoy it. There is a very good Jaguar owners website, which is mine of information.

Good luck

Andy

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[scarlett]

Re: No contest --- And

you will have trouble buying petrol. A gallon bought at a filling station and carried to the boat will not last long. Petrol should be stored in a locker vented out board or tied to the push pit. Anywhere else is adding to the fire risks.

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[aluijten]

Re: No contest --- And

Just as a matter of curiosity, how do all the powerboat and outboard people keep their engine running if you cannot get hold of petrol in the habour?
In Holland many (but not all) habours also sell petrol. I myself use a 10 litre jerrycan and a 20 litres main tank, more then enough spare to get me though several days of running the engine.

I do agree that storing the jerrycan is a bit of an issue. In my boat there is a vented cap on the jerrycan with a tube leading to the outside.

Arno

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[macd]

I'd suggest the relative suitability of petrol/diesel would also depend very much on the type of use you'll be putting the Jag to. Diesel is manifestly superior overall, but if you're just getting in and out of port, then a reliable petrol engine should be more than up to the job. However, if you plan on doing much cruising, then with the best will in the world, you'll probably find yourself doing a fair bit of motorsailing -- maybe 20 or even 40 per cent. That can add up to a lot of petrol, and a lot of irksome trips to gas stations, particularly in remoter areas.

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[scarlett]

Re: No contest --- And

To answer your first question - they get it delivered because they use enough to persuade a dealer to truck it to the harbour. I have not tried but I would expect difficulties if I asked a nearby Brish filling station to deliver 10 litres. Maybe I am wrong but I am normally an optimist.

There was a lot of stuff in the mags a few years ago to the effect that new regulations meant that marinas no longer found it economical to sell petrol.

I would not be happy even with your vent tube off the top of a can going out of the locker, across the cockpit and over the side. I keep my petrol tied to the push pit and you can smell the fumes leaking past the cap on a hot day, despite precautions. I have no life raft and so have to avoid fire.

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[aluijten]

Re: No contest --- And

You tell me that you keep the petrol tied to the pushpit. Does that mean you keep it in the full sun? That would really worry me.
As for me the jerrycan is stored in a locker and the fumes are routed to the backend of the boat via a tube running through the locker spaces to a vent nozzle at the backend. I very rarely (if ever) detect any petrol smell.
I think we should see things in perspective, millions of cars use petrol and it is not that we see burned out cars everywhere (at least not in Holland). Obviously you need to take some precautions, and the risk is higher then with Diesel especially if you are not careful, but to come back to the original question, if you could buy two identical boats (also from maintenance point of view) and one with petrol and one with diesel for almost the same price, I also would go for the diesel, no question about it. But that's not the case apparently. So again my advise, look at the total picture.

Arno

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[galsale76]

thank you all for your suggestions and advice on this petrol / diesel question. I am about 200 times better informed than I was 6 hours ago! Am going to look at two this saturday... one of each.

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[scarlett]

Re: No contest --- And fires

Fires. Car fires are one of the most frequent calls on the Fire and Rescue Service in the UK, after kitchen fires. By coincidence yesterday I was standing by my bike answering a phone call when a car drew up and parked. And caught fire.

The outboard fuel is stored on the pushpit in the very hot Grecian sun but protected from it by two 'sealed' white plastic bags.

I agree. Looking at the bigger picture and having had a boat fire caused by electrical failure, I would NEVER buy a sea going boat powered by an inboard petrol engine. Life can be too short without adding further risk.

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[macd]

Re: No contest --- And fires

Scarlett's point is well made. Most car fires are caused by electrical faults -- as they are with boats. Petrol is actually damned hard to ignite -- even dripping it directly onto a hot exhaust manifold won't give you more than clouds of white smoke (but please don't try it at home). But an electrical spark will get it going in a flash. Even static can be a major issue.

Yet I suspect (strongly, from the evidence of boats I've bought) that boat owners often take wise and obvious precautions with inflammables such as fuel and gas, but are prepared to put up with all manner of dodgy wiring.

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[jimi]

Depends where your cruising ground is, if its the N Baltic then petrol may be a better option due to diesel waxing in very cold weather.

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[tr7v8]

Re: No contest --- And fires

I think that car fires are actually very rare, doing the 50K miles or so a year I can only remember 1 car fire, however I've seen loads of lorry & van fires Oops all diesel. Current thinking is that some vehicle fires are caused by lit cigarettes entering the air intake system.

The US figures show that the vast majority of boat fires are electrical and they have a vast amount of petrol boats. So panic regarding the safety in the UK is a little OTT.



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Draco 2500

 

[dickh]

galsale76,
A lot of sense has been aired on this subject, I would expect a petrol engined boat to be a good deal cheaper than a diesel version, assuming they have the same level of maintenance and upgrading. If it is not cheaper, then you can negotiate, I would expect a petrol J27 to be about 1500 to £2000 cheaper. Remember if the petrol version fuel system has not been upgraded to the latest recommendations, you will have some further expense. A surveyor will be able to recommend what is currently required - from memory when I upgraded a small petrol engine in a 23' boat a few years ago, I had to fit a different fuel filter, copper fuel pipes with antivibration coils, NO soldered connections in the fuel pipe, drip tray under the carb, etc etc.
Not sure where you are based, my J27(diesel) is for sale, I will send you a PM - click on the flashing flag at the top left when you log onto the forum. Also go to the Jaguar Owners association for more information, click on the link below: -
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/westgatefamily/default.htm>http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/westgatefamily/default.htm</A>


<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
I'd rather be sailing... /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

 

[Piere]

A friend of mine is selling a jauar 25 .
Smashing boat , sails well , nice layout , very clean and in good condition inside and out , but has a petrol engine on a saildrive , volvo penta I seem to remember.
Trouble is , it isn'nt selling .
I think it may be the engine !

Volvo do a 10 hp single diesel that will sit straight onto the beds and saildrive .

My first boat had a petrol , currently have inboard diesel . Wouldn't change back now , does a little over a litre / hour at 5 1/2 knots


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