jaguar 22 road delivery?

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alant

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Mate wants to move a Jaguar 22, drop keel, from Lymington to Scotland.
Considering borrowing/hiring road trailor or flatbed lorry.
Any recommendations for either, would be welcome.
 
From memory a Jaguar 22 weighs in at about 2 tonne or maybe slightly less. A friend of mine, now deceased, towed one from the factory to N. Wales on a road trailer in the late 1970s, not sure what car was used, but I don't think it was anything too special. I subsequently used his trailer to tow an ODay 22 of fairly similar weight from Canvey Island to N. Wales behind a 2 litre Vauxhall. No great problem but a bit tedious, especially around the North Circ in rush hour! (Pre M25) Not that much different to towing a good size caravan really but a bit longer. Not up to date on towing regulations, you would need to check, but I don't think there should be a problem. Check your licence though as I think after a certain date they changed allowed classes on car licences.

John
 
alant,

I don't want to get into a slanging match and hesitated saying anything, so please do understand this is trying to be helpful, not critical.

It really would be well worth your chum doing everything he can to support the hull, not leave all the weight resting on the keel stub if he can avoid it.

Years ago a friend in Scotland bought an Anderson 22 at Emsworth, Hants; as we knew the boat was going on a flat-bed lorry, my father made some special versions of the trestles I recommend to all A22 owners, also used by a few other classes.

These trestles were in halves, the upper half had the vee and curved shapes for fore and aft respectively, and they were just deep enough so that the boat with keel up rested the weight on the ballast bulb, but the trestles held her upright and I suppose alleviated some of the overhang weight fore and aft.

The purpose was entirely to keep the boat upright though, not because of hull strength as may well apply with the Jaguar; I have seen two lift keel Jaguar 22's ashore in yards, both had the hull sagging all around the keel stub as if the grp was not set or something ( it was, I'm trying to convey the appearance ) - like a pudding.

On the A22's arrival in Scotland the lower halves of the trestles were bolted on, allowing my chum's boat to be wintered high enough to lower and maintain the keel.

As an aside, if your chum doesn't have a facility for maintaining the keel I am happy to supply diagrams and photo's of the trestles, he might have to modify the hull shapes to suit the Jaguar 22 but a few owners of other boats have managed that quite easily.
 
L
Seajet said:
alant,

I don't want to get into a slanging match and hesitated saying anything, so please do understand this is trying to be helpful, not critical.

It really would be well worth your chum doing everything he can to support the hull, not leave all the weight resting on the keel stub if he can avoid it.

Years ago a friend in Scotland bought an Anderson 22 at Emsworth, Hants; as we knew the boat was going on a flat-bed lorry, my father made some special versions of the trestles I recommend to all A22 owners, also used by a few other classes.

These trestles were in halves, the upper half had the vee and curved shapes for fore and aft respectively, and they were just deep enough so that the boat with keel up rested the weight on the ballast bulb, but the trestles held her upright and I suppose alleviated some of the overhang weight fore and aft.

The purpose was entirely to keep the boat upright though, not because of hull strength as may well apply with the Jaguar; I have seen two lift keel Jaguar 22's ashore in yards, both had the hull sagging all around the keel stub as if the grp was not set or something ( it was, I'm trying to convey the appearance ) - like a pudding.

On the A22's arrival in Scotland the lower halves of the trestles were bolted on, allowing my chum's boat to be wintered high enough to lower and maintain the keel.

As an aside, if your chum doesn't have a facility for maintaining the keel I am happy to supply diagrams and photo's of the trestles, he might have to modify the hull shapes to suit the Jaguar 22 but a few owners of other boats have managed that quite easily.
Click to expand...

Will pass on.
 
I too have considered such a move of a 25 foot bilge keeler, and there in the fun starts....

You need the correct class of car licences ie Prior to 1 Jan '97

Max width of trailer 2.55 Metres, max length is 7 Metres if towed behind vehicle upto 3500KG Gross Vehicle Weight.
( if trailer is wider than vehicle extended mirrors must be used or offence committed)

you need to know weight of boat plus trailer does that exceed towing limit for car? (probably unless its a van or 4x4)

Tow Vehicle, look on your vehicle there will be a weight plate in the door post areas etc, or hand book, you are looking for the Gross Train Weight (GTW). add the weight of the trailer +boat + vehicle +fuel+driver (+ passenger, flask, sandwiches and other detritus) does that figure exceed the GTW ?

If it exceeds the GTW and you are stopped ( Police, VOSA and even Trading Standards ) you will be prosecuted and stopped from continuing your journey, care must be taken to not exceed max weights on individual axles. Exceeding GTW can also invalidate vehicle insurance in the event of a bump

Flat bed 7.5 ton could be used but there are not many companies that run them for hire as there is not that much call for them apparently as i found out, a lifting keel Jag 22 on stands on a flatbed should evenlyish spread the weight on the vehicle. Gov.UK goes into some detail but is reasonably straight forward.

If you PM me Alant happy to provide details of a van hire co that runs flatbeds and is ok on price.
 
chrishscorp said:
Max width of trailer 2.55 Metres, max length is 7 Metres if towed behind vehicle upto 3500KG Gross Vehicle Weight.
Click to expand...

Longer is fine if specially made for a "single indivisible load" - glider trailers come under this. My recollection is that a similar exception applies to width: there is a normal maximum, an "if it's really necessary" maximum and then an "OK, you need an escort for that" maximum.
 
I towed a Trident 24 using a Series 2a landrover, stopping power could have been better, but very do able, and possibly the cheaper alternative to a flatbed, unless you have a mate with a waggon and hiab.
 
Most modern cars have a tow weight limit of around 80% of the vehicle. The maximum trail weight, and the maximum allowable mass will all be defined for the vehicle by the makers. Maximum allowable mas, is the total permissible all up weight of the car plus trailer and load. These figures are usually on the VIN plate or very nearby, and plod knows where to find it.

Dont forget the trailer will weigh several hundred kgs too when calculating all up weight. Plod will happily stop you, and insist you go to an official weighbridge to check. If the overload is obvious or there is an obvious fault, they can issue a 'stop order',which means you have to leave the outfit roadside, until it can either offloaded or towed by a legal vehicle.

The old days of towing a ton and a half of 22 footer behind a 1600cc Cortina estate (as i used to quite regularly 30 years ago) are long past. The car may be able to cope perfectly well, but if its beyond the makers rated weights, then you are asking for Plod trouble. Its too easy for plod to up their road crime detection rate figures at your expense. Round here on the S coast they have regular blitzes checking any private towing outfit, caravan, boat or horsebox. They report a remarkably high number of faults, with a significant number sufficiently dangerous to merit stop orders: faulty tyres, brakes or dangerous loading.

Legal towing vehicles for that sort of load are mostly the larger 4x4's or 3.5 ton vans. If there is a choice, a LWB type vehicle is preferable, as they resist snaking much better. I once nearly jacknifed a SWB landrover braking hard on the M27 with a 20 footer on the tow hook. Definitely a brown trouser moment!

Its no good asking Plod if your outfit is road legal, they wont commit themselves because towing law is now so complex. But they will jump on you with great glee if they think there is something wrong! The Caravan Club or Caravan and Camping Club, can give a lot of sound advice.
 
Max towing capacity of Transit is anything from 1600KG to 2800KG depending on model, 28 footer on a trailer, shame the plod was not about, IMHO that would have been overloaded and a danger to other road users.

Its fine till it all goes wrong or you are stopped then the poop hits the fan, Towing law is seriously complicated now
 
oldharry said:
Most modern cars have a tow weight limit of around 80% of the vehicle. The maximum trail weight, and the maximum allowable mass will all be defined for the vehicle by the makers. Maximum allowable mas, is the total permissible all up weight of the car plus trailer and load. These figures are usually on the VIN plate or very nearby, and plod knows where to find it.

Dont forget the trailer will weigh several hundred kgs too when calculating all up weight. Plod will happily stop you, and insist you go to an official weighbridge to check. If the overload is obvious or there is an obvious fault, they can issue a 'stop order',which means you have to leave the outfit roadside, until it can either offloaded or towed by a legal vehicle.

The old days of towing a ton and a half of 22 footer behind a 1600cc Cortina estate (as i used to quite regularly 30 years ago) are long past. The car may be able to cope perfectly well, but if its beyond the makers rated weights, then you are asking for Plod trouble. Its too easy for plod to up their road crime detection rate figures at your expense. Round here on the S coast they have regular blitzes checking any private towing outfit, caravan, boat or horsebox. They report a remarkably high number of faults, with a significant number sufficiently dangerous to merit stop orders: faulty tyres, brakes or dangerous loading.

Legal towing vehicles for that sort of load are mostly the larger 4x4's or 3.5 ton vans. If there is a choice, a LWB type vehicle is preferable, as they resist snaking much better. I once nearly jacknifed a SWB landrover braking hard on the M27 with a 20 footer on the tow hook. Definitely a brown trouser moment!

Its no good asking Plod if your outfit is road legal, they wont commit themselves because towing law is now so complex. But they will jump on you with great glee if they think there is something wrong! The Caravan Club or Caravan and Camping Club, can give a lot of sound advice.
Click to expand...

+1
 
I should also add that they (both plod and insurance) may also object to a flatbed trailer being used to carry a boat of any size.. They argue the trailer is being used for a load it wasnt designed to carry. It could be quite difficult to prove that the load is 'safe' Forget that it might be perfectly well lashed own etc. Boats go on boat trailers. End of argument. See you in court.
 
Old Harry,

that's a bit of an eye opener even for my cynical mind though I don't doubt it for a second; I've known pro boat delivery & boatbuilding companies use flatbed lorries !

Very difficult to hire a trailer, as the things get abused and need regular maintainence for salt water on brakes & bearings etc; Hayling Trailers used to hire them out long ago but gave up ( they seem to have ceased trading nowadays ).
 
oldharry said:
I should also add that they (both plod and insurance) may also object to a flatbed trailer being used to carry a boat of any size.. They argue the trailer is being used for a load it wasnt designed to carry. It could be quite difficult to prove that the load is 'safe' Forget that it might be perfectly well lashed own etc. Boats go on boat trailers. End of argument. See you in court.
Click to expand...

After a spate of prosecutions of glider pilots for carrying allegedly over-length but actually perfectly legal trailers, the BGA got a letter from the DoT which we all used to carry around to wave at Mr Plod when he started getting uppity. What loads are flat bed trailers designed to carry? Mine was designed for helium bottles, but now carries a boat, although perhaps the docking place for the keel and the side rollers make it look a little less flat bed ...
 
Yes max weight of braked trailer to be towed by Transit is 2800KG taken from the Ford website. I drive a large Renault Traffic and frequently use a 2000KG plant trailer loaded to that gross weight and that is as far as i would want to go weight wise behind that van.

Transit... A big boat trailer has to be some 500 - 800KG unladen so doesnt leave you a lot of load !! 26' Centaur unladen of boaty bits is some 3100KG. If you are snaking about they could argue the trailed load is far heavier than the empty van and so is unsafe.

I did work with a chap who had a 22 foot cabin cruiser who towed it from the Yorkshire coast to the Norfolk Broads and back for a weeks holiday, the towing vehicle...... a Robin Reliant 3 wheeler, no thats not a typo
 
I don't know the weight of a Jaguar 22 - and one must bear in mind the significant additional accumulated kit, possibly some water absorbtion etc - but I'd expect it to be about 80-90 % that of my Anderson 22.

The claimed new weight of the A22 was 2,500lbs ( I've always thought a suspiciously round number ! ) which my schoolboy maths makes 1136 KG.

+ engine, anchor/s, sails, water & fuel tanks, dinghy ? tools, battery, etc etc.

Maybe a rough sort of area to work with if no better information available, one thing's for sure, the Jaguar won't have got any lighter over the years.
 
Same for the Jaguar 22 http://sailplan.ie/apps/boat-data-result/Jaguar+22

If you assume 6-800Kgs for a braked twin axle trailer That brings you up to 2000Kgs

As you say the extras (motor, sails, fuel. outboard etc) and the water absorption could add a bit more. I would be very surprised if the boat/trailer combo was less than 2500kgs.

My Jeep Cherokee was rated up to 2800kgs. But it is getting marginal.
For a trip of that length a visit to the local weighbridge would be a very necessary. At least if plod pulled you you would have a ticket a day or two old that he may take as reason to believe you were within the law.
 
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