Jabsco manual toilet inlet water supply, fresh ?

[simonfraser]

the sea water in the inlet pipe stews away and gets smelly. water and pipe.

i could convert the inlet for the Jabsco hand pump to 24/7 pressurized fresh water from my tanks ?

or, T the fresh into the inlet and open up the fresh feed into this for a last flush b4 i leave the boat.

the main water tanks are well above the toilet, so even if the electric pump in the fresh water fails its not going to flow back into my cold water supply.

what do you recon ?

 

[Mistroma]

I wouldn't want to waste my fresh water supply by flushing through heads every time they were used. I put a T-piece in the forward head about 5 years ago. I just turn off the sea water inlet and basin outlet valves, then pump some fresh water through the inlet pipe and into the bowl. It only takes a minute, valves can all be immediately reset for normal use and can be left to soak for hours before next use. A very cheap modification and I only flush with fresh water every 6 weeks or so.

I'd probably do it before leaving the boat each weekend in UK. However, I live on board from April until end of October so heads are in constant use. The odd fresh water flush works in my case.

 

[duncan99210]

Fitted one of these years ago (https://www.sheridanmarine.com/product/jabsco-toilet-fresh-system). Don’t use it for it’s stated purpose during the season, as the boat is in constant use for the summer months. However, at the end of the season, I take the top off the reservoir, pump it out to about half full and then top up using bleach. Pump a little of that through to the bowl and return to fresh smelling heads on first use next season.

 

[Norman_E]

I have switched to fresh water flush, taking the supply from the tank before the pressure pump. If you so that you can either pump manually, or do as I did and put in a small pump and a sprung switch. Lever to the left, press switch to put water in, lever to the right and manual pump to empty. It works very well with the big advantage that less water is pumped through each time and the holding tank takes longer to fill. The reason is that the Jabsco manual toilet, used as designed, pumps some water out into the holding tank whilst in pump in mode.

P.S. I would not connect the head to a pressurised supply as I suspect it would leak or flow constantly as none of the valves seem to make a perfect seal.

 

[simonfraser]

I wouldn't want to waste my fresh water supply by flushing through heads every time they were used. I put a T-piece in the forward head about 5 years ago. I just turn off the sea water inlet and basin outlet valves, then pump some fresh water through the inlet pipe and into the bowl. It only takes a minute, valves can all be immediately reset for normal use and can be left to soak for hours before next use. A very cheap modification and I only flush with fresh water every 6 weeks or so.

I'd probably do it before leaving the boat each weekend in UK. However, I live on board from April until end of October so heads are in constant use. The odd fresh water flush works in my case.

tnx, sound idea

 

[NormanS]

My hot/cold tap in the toilet basin lifts out with a flexible hose, so that it could be used for showering. If I ever felt the need to flush the loo with fresh water, which I haven't, I would simply use that convenient supply. No need for any plumbing.

 

[KellysEye]

When the inlet pipe gets smelly take it off and bash it on the side of a marina pontoon or equivalent move the hose down as you go, you will be amazed how much comes out.

 

[Mistroma]

When the inlet pipe gets smelly take it off and bash it on the side of a marina pontoon or equivalent move the hose down as you go, you will be amazed how much comes out.

Duh, that's the outlet pipe you are thinking about. Inlet pipe should be clear of calcification, unless your inlet is very close to the outlet and regularly used with boat static wrt water.

 

[Mistroma]

tnx, sound idea

I just realised that I wasn't totally clear about where the flush line is connected. It is connected to the basin drain line, not the fresh water supply. I think that you did get that but thought I'd mention it anyway.

This has quite a few advantages:
1) You can pour whatever you like into the basin (water, cleaner, disinfectant etc.) as required. Not restricted to fresh water.

2) Useful when lubricating the pump seal, just close normal inlet and open line to basin drain. You only pump air and little water comes out when pump seal is unscrewed to lubricate the O-ring.

3) No risk of contaminating fresh water supply or lose excessive fresh water into heads by accident.

4) It's quick and cheap (especially as I already had a spare ball valve).

 

[Mistroma]

My hot/cold tap in the toilet basin lifts out with a flexible hose, so that it could be used for showering. If I ever felt the need to flush the loo with fresh water, which I haven't, I would simply use that convenient supply. No need for any plumbing.

The water will only go into the bowl and then through the outlet hose. It won't flush the inlet pipe where anaerobic bacteria have set up home. The additional plumbing is required to flush that section of the pipework.

 

[NormanS]

The water will only go into the bowl and then through the outlet hose. It won't flush the inlet pipe where anaerobic bacteria have set up home. The additional plumbing is required to flush that section of the pipework.

Yes, you're quite right, I wasn't thinking straight. I wonder if the problem is related to the quality of the seawater. In all the (many) years that I've had sea toilets, I have never had any problem related to the inlet pipe.

 

[Minchsailor]

I can never understand this problem with smelly pipes. Fresh water is too valuable to use in flushing the loo.

Just pump LOTS of sea water through every time it is used, and dose with bleach when leaving the boat - it has never failed me.

 

[vyv_cox]

The reason that toilets smell when first used after a period of disuse, typically at the beginning of a weekend after the boat was unused all week, is that a small amount of faecal matter passes back through the inlet valve from the pump. Plumbing in the domestic fresh water tank to the inlet opens the door to serious contamination and sickness. Some boats have dedicated toilet flushing fresh water tanks, but as Minchsailor says, there is nothing magic about fresh water, simply flush through copiously and all will be well (assuming that the inlet seacock is a respectable distance from the toilet discharge seacock)

 

[RupertW]

The reason that toilets smell when first used after a period of disuse, typically at the beginning of a weekend after the boat was unused all week, is that a small amount of faecal matter passes back through the inlet valve from the pump. Plumbing in the domestic fresh water tank to the inlet opens the door to serious contamination and sickness. Some boats have dedicated toilet flushing fresh water tanks, but as Minchsailor says, there is nothing magic about fresh water, simply flush through copiously and all will be well (assuming that the inlet seacock is a respectable distance from the toilet discharge seacock)

I'm looking forward to this discussion - this seems to be the one topic where half the posters will not believe you despite your credibility in every other area.

If you believe that seawater is inherently dirty and fresh water is inherently clean then no amount of facts (or risk of cross contamination) will convince you. Especially as fresh water (just like sea water) will clean out your loo once flushed through.

 

[jwilson]

I can never understand this problem with smelly pipes. Fresh water is too valuable to use in flushing the loo.

Just pump LOTS of sea water through every time it is used, and dose with bleach when leaving the boat - it has never failed me.

Many marine WC manufacturers specifically say not to use bleach as it can damage (presumably rubber) components. In any case bleach in the bowl should not get backwards into the inlet pipe, and it is the inlet pipe water that gets smelly.

You are fortunate indeed if you can leave a boat a week or fortnight and come back and not get a rotten eggs smell on the first pump though. Most people I think do get this.

I am appalled by the thought of connecting FW tank to the inlet pipe of a stanadrd marine WC - quite apart from the water usage. The usual "fix" is either a patent dosage system on the inlet as sold by Leesan and others, or a cheap inline filter with a small domestic Bloo or similar "in cistern toilet block" in the centre, renewed occasionally. This does seem to work well and there can't be much if any bleach in them.

 

[Tranona]

When the inlet pipe gets smelly take it off and bash it on the side of a marina pontoon or equivalent move the hose down as you go, you will be amazed how much comes out.

As usual you don't seem to have a clue what you are talking about!

 

[RichardS]

I'm looking forward to this discussion - this seems to be the one topic where half the posters will not believe you despite your credibility in every other area.

If you believe that seawater is inherently dirty and fresh water is inherently clean then no amount of facts (or risk of cross contamination) will convince you. Especially as fresh water (just like sea water) will clean out your loo once flushed through.

Indeed, it's a subject which always causes confusion but, to my simple mind, it's quite simple.

If you leave the loo for a week or two and then pump in seawater, the first few pumps will smell. The problem is therefore clearly in the inlet/pump side as anything in the output side is not going to appear in the bowl for the delectation of your nose.

This smell does not happen with a brand new, unused toilet, and therefore it must be human waste in the pump section which is causing the problem by infecting the input side of the pump such that it will go into the bowl when first used.

The only way to avoid having any residual human waste in the pump is to either pump it for so long with any type of water after final use that all human waste is flushed through, or use bleach/disinfectant either on a one-off blast basis or through continual less concentrated dosing, to ensure that there is no bacteria still alive in the waste matter when the boat is left.

I use the continual limited dosing method which works fine but I am sure that the other two approaches would also be effective with the caveats that concentrated bleach blasting might not do the rubber seals any good and pumping sufficiently to clear out all waste matter from the plunger seal and cylinder walls will take a fair amount of effort if your toilet is well used for number twos. :ambivalence:

In fact, from my observations, I suspect that the more well greased your plunger seal is, the more effectively, smoothly and quietly the pump actually works but the more faecal matter get mixed up and sticks with the grease so the harder it is to clear out with pumping alone. You could always remove the plunger and mechanically clean up the piston and seal which would be very effective but rather unpleasant. :nonchalance:

Richard

 

[NormanS]

The outlet hose for my toilet has a total length of 6m. :disgust: Jabsco say to pump 7 strokes / metre. Accordingly we pump at least 40 strokes. The inlet is on the opposite side of the boat from the outlet. We never get the smell referred to. So which of the above reasons is significant?

 

[RupertW]

In fact, from my observations, I suspect that the more well greased your plunger seal is, the more effectively, smoothly and quietly the pump actually works but the more faecal matter get mixed up and sticks with the grease so the harder it is to clear out with pumping alone. You could always remove the plunger and mechanically clean up the piston and seal which would be very effective but rather unpleasant. :nonchalance:

Richard

I think you are right overall and don't buy this concept of dirty organic seawater causing the problem.

Your observation above is interesting and you may well be right, but at the same time the grease seal will also make cross-contamination between inlet and outlet less likely, so I would expect there to be more faeces stuck to the grease but very little crossing the boundary. But I'm entirely guessing as I hand't thought about this before.

Once a year at least I do mechanically clean plunger and piston and seals before greasing again. As the loo is very thoroughly flushed before that (about 50 strokes to clear the long outlet pipe a couple of times), then its only the grease that smells and I dump it all in a bucket of hot soapy water before cleaning.

Oddly it's only the forward heads on our boat that has the smell from time to time not the aft heads. Annoying as that's the one I use whilst my wife uses the other one.

 

[Heckler]

I'm looking forward to this discussion - this seems to be the one topic where half the posters will not believe you despite your credibility in every other area.

If you believe that seawater is inherently dirty and fresh water is inherently clean then no amount of facts (or risk of cross contamination) will convince you. Especially as fresh water (just like sea water) will clean out your loo once flushed through.

Sorry, am with Vyv on this one. Have just spent two days rebuilding and refurbing one ready for an article in the mag. the big piston that you pump up and down, the bottom piston side pulls the cack out of the bowl on the up stroke in to the pump, then pushes it out through the joker valve on tne down stroke. The top side of the piston meanwhile pulls the bowl flush water in to the pump on the top side of the piston on the down stroke and pushes it to the bowl on the up stroke. The piston housing that is doing all this is thus contaminated by cack on the up stroke along its full length. If you are daft enough to connect your freshwater system to the flush connection inlet then there is the possbility of cack germs migrating through the flush valve back to the fresh water system! This is the reason that water companies and the law now insist that there be a physical break between contamination and the water mains, you will have seen the result because marinas now dont allow water hoses to be connected permanently on pontoons. Also building regs? insist on physical breaks in domestic properties!